Where IS Caltech tops?

[tech_fan]

<p>An earlier iteration of the thread created by itsallgood got killed (dunno why). But the question was asked “Where is Caltech the best or among the very best?” Perhaps it’s part of today’s recreation of trying to cast doubt on a school that isn’t all that hard to defend. So here’s the answer:</p>

<p>Historical interlude: Caltech made its name in physics and chemistry (Robert Millikan, Linus Pauling, Richard Feynman, Murray Gell-mann, etc.) Oh and that little thing called JPL which has built every unmanned U.S. spacecraft.</p>

<p>Educating engineers was never a top priority. We’re a hard science school. And we’re okay at that. So here we go. All references are from <a href=“http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/phdsci/phdsciindex_brief.php[/url]”>http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/phdsci/phdsciindex_brief.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Physics</p>

<li>California Institute of Technology 5.0
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 5.0 </li>
<li>Harvard University (MA) 4.9 </li>
</ol>

<p>Physics Specialties: Elementary Particle/Nuclear </p>

<li>Stanford University (CA) </li>
<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology </li>
<li>California Institute of Technology
University of California–Berkeley </li>
</ol>

<p>Chemistry</p>

<li>University of California–Berkeley 5.0 </li>
<li>California Institute of Technology 4.9
Harvard University (MA) </li>
</ol>

<p>Chemistry Specialties: Inorganic </p>

<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology </li>
<li>California Institute of Technology </li>
<li>Northwestern University (IL) </li>
</ol>

<p>Chemistry Specialties: Physical </p>

<li>University of California–Berkeley </li>
<li>California Institute of Technology </li>
<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology</li>
</ol>

<p>Applied Mathematics</p>

<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.7
New York University 4.7 </li>
<li>California Institute of Technology 4.6</li>
</ol>

<p>Geology </p>

<li>California Institute of Technology 4.9 </li>
<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.8 </li>
<li>Stanford University (CA) 4.5
University of California-Berkeley 4.5 </li>
</ol>

<p>Geology Specialties: Geochemistry </p>

<li>California Institute of Technology </li>
<li>University of Michigan-Ann Arbor </li>
<li>University of California-Berkeley </li>
</ol>

<p>Geology Specialties: Geophysics </p>

<li>California Institute of Technology </li>
<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology </li>
<li>Stanford University (CA) </li>
</ol>

<p>Geology Specialties: Tectonics/Structure </p>

<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology </li>
<li>Stanford University (CA) </li>
<li>California Institute of Technology </li>
</ol>

<p>Note that most of the measures in these rankings did NOT take size into account, so the fact that Caltech’s departments are on average smaller (in terms of sheer manpower) was not taken into account, yet it came out on or near the top in physics, chemistry (i.e. the hard sciences) and geology, competing with progams many times its size. In the case of Berkeley, dozens of times our size.</p>

<p>As for why so many engineers come here? Well, rankings don’t dominate everyone’s choices. The engineers who choose us over MIT and Stanford usually do so for the 3:1 student:faculty ratio, the fact that a Nobel laureate in physics teaches the basic introductory electronics lecture and lab, the fact that you can work in the summer at JPL on spacecraft that often end up in space before you graduate. That’s why.</p>

<p>We’re good at engineering, we’re exceptional everywhere for hands-on opportunities to work with the best professors in the world, we’re hands-down at the very top in hard science. Any questions?</p>

[h88]

<p>Hey Ben,</p>

<p>I think itsallgood was refering to the engineering rankings. But I just want everyone to realize that rankings are not what makes up a great school nor should it be a deciding factor.</p>

<p>Just my opinion.</p>

[tech_fan]

<p>I know that, but then strategically the word engineering is left out and there are references made to science and business schools.</p>

<p>The point is that rankings are not all-important, but it’s good for people to know that Caltech comes out on or near the top in a lot of them despite the fact that there’s an enormous size disadvantage. Heck, Caltech is smaller than a lot of no-name liberal arts schools and still beats Princeton, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, etc. in more than one discipline apiece! So people who think rankings matter should be aware of that.</p>

<p>What’s the net outcome of all this? That you can have the learning experience and undergraduate lifestyle of a small, personal school at one of the premier scientific powerhouses on the planet. That’s also important to know.</p>

<p>So I know what the original question was, but I think it’s important to mention all this. And I hope all is going well with you, h88 :)</p>

[h88]

<p>Hey - I’m doing well! :)</p>

<p>I guess I know what you mean at this point - you are trying to show that Caltech isn’t absent from the USN Rankings (or at least not absent from the top 3 list), for the ones that regard it as an important factor.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if the rankings is all that important to you, Caltech was:</p>

<ul>
<li>placed at the top (yes above Harvard!) in the national universities rankings in 1999!</li>
<li>ranked 4th in the world according to The Times.</li>
</ul>

<p>Caltech is the place to be! Heh.</p>

[joemama]

<p>Does anyone know the actual rankings for the undergraduate Engineering programs? CalTech does not show up in my 2004 US News and World Report book at all except for aerospace. I’m most interested in EE.</p>

<p>Also, how many freshman have EE as a major?</p>

[h88]

<p>I think 16% of the undergrad population are CS and EE majors. I just searched the CC archive.</p>

<p>Most of the freshman will change their major anyway, but I too am willing to know that particular figure (EE here).</p>

<p>Oh BTW, I, as usual, failed to formulate a rational response. Ben, my second post wasn’t directed to you. . sorry if i caused any confusion.</p>

[tanman]

<p>For EE, USNWR ranks Caltech as 7th behind MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, UIUC, Ann Arbor, and Georgia Tech.</p>

[joemama]

<p>Many thanks. That helps.</p>

[rtkysg]

<p>tanman, which USNWR ranking list did you mention?</p>

<p>I think the last ranking list (from USNWR) for EE is as follows:

1. MIT
2. Stanford/Berkeley
3. Caltech/UIUC
4. …</p>

[rushil]

<p>But can somebody(Ben) plz explain that even though Salaries and research opportunities in Industry or even in research institutions for Techers are the HIGHEST , esp in engineering as compared to say MIT — and the faculty is the Best, why is it consistently ranked lower than MIT in engineering? Is it becuase of the size — i think this is a baseless argument -given that small size actually raises the standard — through higher selectivity and rigour! But why are its rankings lower in engg even though the industriy’s response to Caltech is the best! </p>

<p>I know rankings dont matter but just a question that arises in your mind !!! </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

[tech_fan]

<p>The rankings are computed taking many factors into account – the amount of research funding, the number of publications/citations, etc. etc. which are influenced by size. So bigger programs get an advantage whether those things are meaningful to students or not. </p>

<p>The slightly higher average salaries for Caltech students in many engineering disciplines suggests that this doesn’t mean Caltech graduates a worse “product” (in fact, often it is better) – the rankings are taking into account things which don’t necessarily matter to educational quality.</p>

[rushil]

<p>Right! Thats great! The alumni who contacted me after admission also told me that jobs and research for Techers is no problem!!</p>

<p>But I have been wanting to ask this:---- even though Caltech is THE most selective(just 200 undergrads!) and the toughest US univ, why is it less famous than MIT? Also, why do more people perfer MIT? Would you know that among those accepted both at Caltech and MIT, How many choose Pasadena? Also, why isn’t Caltech so well known for graduation worldwide(I’m in India so this question applies more to me here!) ? It seems Caltech isnt as much a part of popular culture in US even though it’s more ‘techie’??? Any specific reasons!
Thanks!</p>

[tech_fan]

<p>It’s the size again. MIT has more than five times more alumni, so there are just more people from MIT that people know and find out about MIT from. Caltech is also more focused on pure science as opposed to engineering, and pure science is too far removed from popular culture. The same is true worldwide.</p>

[rushil]

<p>I have a little unrelatd question – I’m an international admit – I just wanted to know whether internationals(in my case specifically from India) perform better or worse than average under the tough curriculum! Also, is there an Indian students organisation at Caltech?</p>

[tech_fan]

<p>Internationals do better on average, as far as I’ve observed. There is an active Indian student organization – they have holiday celebrations, organize dance shows, etc.</p>

[halfthelaw]

<p>So the science programs are better (in some sense of the word) than EE?
I ask because I’ve been considering Chem or Phys v. EE, so this topic greatly interests me…</p>

[tech_fan]

<p>Don’t choose a major based on which Caltech is epsilon better at. People have gone on to be top professors and Nobel laureates after majoring in things Caltech was downright mediocre in (think social sciences in the 1960s).</p>

[tokenadult]

<p>Caltech was MORE famous to me than MIT when I was a kid. Maybe that’s a peculiarity of what I read about (I did do a LOT more recreational reading about pure science research than about engineering), but I had much more “brand awareness” of Caltech than of any other university when I was in high school. The bottom line is that if you are admitted to Caltech (good luck to next year’s applicants) and decide to accept the offer of admission, you will meet plenty of people for the rest of your life who will be impressed about where you went to college, and you will likely have more job opportunities than you will be able to do simultaneously.</p>

[halfthelaw]

<p>I saw this on the College Board site:
Most Popular Majors
* Social Sciences: 6%
* Mathematics: 5%</p>

<p>Who would’ve thought?</p>

[tech_fan]

<p>Math is hard ;-)</p>