<p>My Junior son is a 3.1 student. He is at a very rigorous private school and works very hard with considerable support from a tutor to keep his C+ in Algebra2. He works not too hard to keep his Bs and occasionally As in the rest of his classes. If his SATs line up with his PSATs we are looking at a score about 1000. He has some documented working memory problems that make long, standardized tests especially arduous, but not bad enough for a diagnosis that would allow for accommodations. He is not lazy or unmotivated or an underachiever, but a kid who has met with somewhat average academic success. His ECs and recommendations will be fine, he has not cured cancer, started a non profit or set a new world record.
I have looked over the thread for the 3.0 -3.3 students, at the fair test list of schools and I have read Popes Colleges that Change Lives, frankly I am overwhelmed. My son wants to study business but I wonder if he could get through the calculus that most programs I have found require. If my kid sounds like your kid, where did your kid go to college? All the better if it was everything you hoped it would be for your student. Right now we are looking at four year privates with no need for financial aid.
Thanks in advance to any caring to weigh in.</p>
<p>Check the 3.0 - 3.3 threads.</p>
<p>If your son is at a very rigorous private school, he is not likely to be an average student. You may want to sit and talk to the college counselors there and ask for some advice on the schools where kids in your son’s category tend to excel. That is one of the things that your tuition payment to this private school gets you. </p>
<p>Two of my kids went to such a school and where that school really provided great preparation was for the smaller liberal arts colleges. In fact, kids from our school were often accepted at a borderline or below level in terms of grades at selective colleges because of the positive history and relatonship that the school enjoyed with those colleges. The adcoms had a very good idea of how well prepared these kids were and how rigorous the grading was. My son was accepted to an ivy with an unweighted 3.0 average (very high test scores), for instance, when ordinarily those grades would knock him out of contention. Kids in the second quintile were accepted to many of the most selective schools because the grade deflation was acknowledged by certain schools.</p>
<p>On the other hand, kids from there were handicapped in terms of admissions to a lot of the state schools like UVA, Michigan (though they did have some personal interaction with admissions there), Wisconsin, UC system and in merit scholarships that had gpa cut offs. </p>
<p>I don’t know if a business program would necessarily require Calculus, but if it did, it would not be of the same rigor that a math or science or engineering major would take. If math is truly the weak spot in his profile, he might want to audit some courses during the summers prior to taking them for grades in college. A lot of colleges require a couple of years of general studies before applying to the school of business, and if the business part of a college is more difficult for admissions than the arts and sciences division, the student should just apply as a general undecided and apply to for the business program after showing “his stuff” at college. </p>
<p>What colleges do the two of you have in mind?</p>
<p>He should go to the best school he gets admitted to and AFFORD…Best of luck</p>
<p>The calculus our students take is offered in the math department. It is the same that those in all the other areas, including engineering and computer science, take. It really varies by school. </p>
<p>But I would suggest that if math is truly his weak point, he may not do very well in a business school in general. There is calculus, but also statistics, operations and logistics, finance, economics, modelling etc. to contend with as well. No, it is not electrical engineering, but it’s still math.</p>
<p>It depends on the college and its business program. Business is one of the most frequently picked majors. It is not considered among the toughest courses of study at most colleges. Yes, at Wharton, it is and at some other select programs, but in general, a general Business Administration degree is not considered something that requires a lot of math aptitude.</p>
<p>Alfred University (NY) established in 1836: A Regional University </p>
<p>College of Liberal Arts
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<p>About 2200 undergrads, small classes-know your professors, Division III Athletics, need based & merit aid, small charming village of Alfred, NY. No Greek Life. </p>
<p>Shuttles run at peak vacation times to Rochester & Buffalo airports. </p>
<p>Fiske Best Buy
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<p>Only two Math credits needed to apply, if your Math SAT is under a certain score then a math course is required during your 4 years there, typically courses are for the kiddos who are not that great in Math! :)</p>
<p>'a general Business Administration degree is not considered something that requires a lot of math aptitude."</p>
<p>According to my son/economics major…a business degree is for someone who not particularly good at math. Though I tell him, maybe it’s merely for those who prefer working with people over numbers!</p>
<p>In looking at schools lately, I’ve noticed that not too many of the smaller LAC’s even offer a business major. If he’s pretty sure he’s interested in business, he can narrow down a whole lot of schools because it’s not even available. And there are some schools offering the major that aren’t overly rigorous. It’s not as if you have to have the math aptitude you’d have for engineering, computer science or econ. You might even look at the math requirements for business at some likely schools, and see what you think. Many schools offer “calculus for business majors” which is less intense. </p>
<p>I guess what I’m trying to say is that there’s a whole range out there, and certainly many places that he’ll fit in perfectly. Especially coming from a rigorous private school. He may find that when he compares himself with the general population, he’s doing better than he thinks.</p>
<p>Agreed, Busdriver. My son who is at college (and also an Econ major and is thinking of adding math to his major) is at a school that offers no business degrees. My alma mater only offers business courses at their night program, not their main ug school.</p>
<p>Agree that business major does not necessarily require great math aptitude. I have a Stanford MBA and am a quantitative person myself. However, that school (certainly thought by most to be quite rigorous, lol) makes accommodations for the “non-quant” type. Optional pre-first year orientation and brush up on some quantitative skills. Certain courses offered in “XXX for poets” (the endearing name informally given to the less math-oriented) sections.</p>
<p>Business majors can focus on marketing, organizational behavior, strategy… A student might be required to take some Accounting, might take some Economics (not necessarily calculus-based)… but can for sure choose a curriculum which is not full of mathematics.</p>
<p>To add to busdriver’s comments about the number of schools which don’t offer business majors… you can add that there are some which offer MBAs but do not offer undergrad business degrees. Stanford is one of these.</p>
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<p>I wouldn’t follow this advice. After the very top schools, it really doesn’t matter. Fit is much more important.</p>
<p>Unless things have changed since i got my degree in Business Administration, there was indeed quite a bit of math. No calculus, but math was a large part of my Accounting, Economics and Computer Science courses. I was also required to take Statistics, etc.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I agree with those who suggest looking through the list of business courses in potential colleges, as well as auditing a business course to see if your child is really as interested in business as he thinks he is.</p>
<p>Go for fit. Yes finance, econ and statistics have that mathy feel and for my non-mathy business/english double major they required abit more study and concentration but it is not insurmountable for a student who managed OK grades in math in high school. My son took the typical high school sequence but no calculus in high school. HIs math ACT score placed him into the College Calculus class but believe me he was no math quiz kid. My son would say don’t put off the math because the more years that pass between senior year in high school and taking that college math class the harder it is.</p>
<p>University of Denver would be one I would throw out. My S1 really liked it as did I. DU is a $50,000 a year school, not a public. Another one not in the NE might be University of San Diego, my sons both had a friend who very happily went/go there. It’s a private Catholic school.</p>
<p>No doubt it varies by school and my sense is that its increasingly watered down (esp at US schools). Everyone and his dog is offering a business degree now for undergrads, and its turned into vocational training (esp at non-top US schools). </p>
<p>No doubt you can get through it with minmal math I guess, but those not strong tend to gravitate to the areas that have weak job prospects for undergrads (and nor is the undergrad degree cut out to produce students majoring in things like management and strategy…why oh why are they doing this?). It is a godawful stupid idea for an undergraduate degree, IMHO, except to work in a few technical areas that are more math heavy. And I’m a professor in a business school. I’ll get off my soap box now.</p>
<p>starbright, I’m a little confused. Do you mean that undergrad degrees in business aren’t worth it? Or just only the top business schools are worth it, or only business degrees with certain focuses?</p>
<p>Please get back on your soap box, I’m trying to understand!</p>
<p>I would have a serious chat with your GC. From a private, self-selected population at your son’s school, it is often difficult to determine how you compare with the average student. After all, it’s been a long time since he was part of an average population. Depending on what your son wants to do in business, there are state schools with highly ranked business specialties and there are LAC’s that offer a different approach with a degree in economics. Look carefully at the course selections necessary for each and seek the advice of GC and perhaps math teacher as well, your son may have strengths that don’t always show up in the final grade at his school.</p>
<p>I’m also intrigued Starbright.</p>
<p>My son is interested in HR and/or organizational management with an intent to pick up a law degree in a few years. When I think of the senior HR personnel in the large global companies with union pants that I’ve worked work that is not uncommon (to have a JD). I couldn’t think of a better major than a double major in English and Business for his interests/plans. I went to an LAC so have no knowledge or point of perspective to evaluate undergrad business programs although I have an MBA and I’ve taught college level Marketing 101 and Advertising 101, but I think the various typical classes in business undergrad are a good foundation for an entry level job into HR or Organizational Management, or Training or Change Mangement or Supply Chain, or Finance etc. especially coupled with an internship in one of those areas. We’ll see and time will tell.</p>
<p>There are hundreds and hundreds of fine colleges and universities that would love to have him (and have you pay the bill).</p>
<p>I would look for schools that offer a lot of academic support services; writing coaches, free tutoring services that you don’t have to pay additional money for, walk-in centers, etc. What geographical region is your son interested in? There are many, smaller, very good schools that you just don’t ever hear about because they aren’t the name-recognition schools. I would recommend you pick up a Peterson’s or similar book that lists just about every school by state, start with the states you are most open to, and read about every school listed. Make a list of the schools that sound attractive, and visit the web sites. You can do all this online, but we liked having a book to actually stick bookmarks in, have with us in the car, etc.</p>
<p>Thanks for the replies.</p>
<p>I am not entirely sure that I am on board with a business degree either, but that is what son wants to pursue for now so that’s what I’m trying to flesh out. At the tender age of 17 he’s sees himself in the business world as an adult. Would a business degree be worse for employment prospects than say a history degree from the level of institutions to which we refer? I understand the objection of the “vocational training” paradigm of UG business programs, but I also believe that there is some merit to a business literacy for someone who wants to go into business.</p>
<p>Thanks for the DU suggestion. My husband and son are headed out to CO next month and that is on the itinerary. </p>
<p>SLUMOM is that as in St. Louis University? That is on my very preliminary list, what do you think? I’ll also check out Alfred.</p>
<p>I know there are scores of school that would be great for my kid, I just don’t know what they are, hence the post.</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>