<p>:)…</p>
<p>Well, I said I’d asked my daughter if she cared to comment on this thread. Here’s her reply:</p>
<p>"We live in San Francisco to save money – as my mom mentioned, we rent a room from her sister, my aunt. Our room is pretty small and we live with family, so our rent is extremely cheap for SF and cheap for the Mission, which is a very desirable neighborhood for our demographic (in our twenties, kinda “hipster”). People are shocked and think we’re joking when we tell them we moved to SF from the East Bay to save money. We previously lived in downtown Berkeley, and have also lived in South Berkeley (near the Ashby BART station). The common denominator here is BART access – this is what makes it possible to feel like the Bay Area (or, at least, SF and the East Bay) are all one big metro area for us, though it is still limiting in that the last BART train is usually not too much past midnight on any given night. </p>
<p>"To be honest, I would like to move back to the East Bay, and we probably will eventually. A lot of Berkeley is very student-oriented, and if you’re not part of that population it’s easy to feel a little alienated (especially if, let’s say, your husband is a grad student and all his friends are grad students and all your housemates are grad students and you are not a grad student…), but Oakland has a wide variety of people and thriving arts and music scenes that are less university-centric. We’ve talked about living in Temescal, Rockridge, or the Lake Merritt area; we also both liked South Berkeley a lot. We are broke artist/student types, and many of the people we meet in SF tend to be, well, in computing or finance or something. If you’re in one of those fields, you’ll probably find a great niche in the city, but we’ve had a little harder time finding our scene and often go to the East Bay to hang out with friends there. We’d also like to live on our own at some point and really feel we can’t afford our own place anywhere in the city we’d like to live (more bang for our buck in the East Bay).</p>
<p>"I am amused that folks are recommending North Oakland (Temescal/Rockridge) but are saying the Mission is dangerous. I have decent street sense (imho) and I get the same kind of feeling about those areas. One of the things I’ve heard about SF and the Bay Area in general is that because they tend to be less segregated (by race, ethnicity, and, notably, class) than some east coast cities (though don’t get me wrong, there is still some segregation), it’s a bit harder to get a sense of which neighborhoods are “safe” and which are “dangerous.” A lot of “safe” and “dangerous” is veiled racism and/or classism, whether conscious or not. (Traveling in Mexico this summer, we met an American who had lived in MEXICO CITY for 15 years who expressed horror when I told her I had worked at a school in Oakland. “You worked in OAKLAND? Isn’t it dangerous?”)</p>
<p>"That said, the Mission is clearly not all sunshine and roses (though it DOES have the best/sunniest weather in the city proper). I’m probably not making a great case for it by mentioning this, but there was a spate of violent rapes not too long ago (the rapist was eventually caught). I avoid the area immediately surrounding the 16th St Mission BART station (it’s okay on the Valencia side, but anything east of Mission from about 13th to 18th, I carry my keys in my hand if I’m walking alone after dark). We live a few blocks from the 24th St Mission BART station and love it. We’re very near an elementary school, and the area is a really nice mix of families and young urban folks like us. Everything we need is pretty close by and convenient. My husband hops on the BART to get to school and I walk about a mile and a half to work (at a different elementary school). There’s a great corner grocery store just down the block and lots of cafes, bars, and restaurants within walking distance. Also lots of great parks – we’re very close to Bernal Heights (beautiful view of the city) and Dolores Park is THE place to hang out on a sunny day (with a sandwich from Rhea’s or Ike’s and an ice cream cone from Bi-Rite – yes!). </p>
<p>“I think the only other neighborhood where we would really consider living in SF (because BART access is important to us) would be Glen Park, which is super cute – and Glen Canyon Park is great, lots of little trails. But the Sunset, or the Richmond? I can get to Oakland in the same time it takes me to get there (on public transportation). We do have a car, but both lived in Portland car-free for a number of years and still prefer not to drive often. I use it for my tutoring job, and we use it to get out of town to go hiking and stuff on the weekends, and for grocery shopping when we’re buying more than one bag’s worth. Dealing with parking is my #1 least-favorite thing about living in the Mission. There IS parking, but the street sweeper comes through so often we have to move the car pretty much every day. Every once in awhile it takes me 20+ minutes of circling in a three- or four-block radius to find a spot, and that really sucks when you’ve got a bunch of bags of groceries or you’re taking the cat home from the vet.”</p>
<p>DMD77, I like your daughter’s post especially the part about not making a great case…</p>
<p>[Daytime</a> Shootings Shake Up 24th Street | Mission Loc@l](<a href=“http://missionlocal.org/2012/07/daytime-shootings-rattle-24th-street/]Daytime”>http://missionlocal.org/2012/07/daytime-shootings-rattle-24th-street/)</p>
<p>I can see why somebody would choose Rockridge or Berkeley over the Richmond district. Personal tastes. I like all those areas myself and would be happy to live in those areas. I would be happy if my daughter lived in those areas. Like I said before, she did live in Rockridge.</p>
<p>24th st in the Mission area…forget it.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is racism.
Classism…maybe. </p>
<p>Safety issues…absolutely.</p>
<p>I like your daughter’s post and her explanations of living areas.</p>
<p>dmd- thank your D. I appreciate all the great insight and information.
She had an email from her boss that she should hear from HR today. Much is still unclear. Hours, salary, when they want her to start.
The tentative plan is she will head up to the bay area next week and stay in southern Marin with family. My sister will take her around to show her areas of the city and surrounding areas. My sister lived in the Marina area prior to moving to Marin when she had a family. She will also send out emails and make some phone calls to extended family who live in Oakland and Berkeley for their thoughts.
She is far from a hipster and is not into going to bars, clubs and is not a foodie. Plus after spending most of her salary on living expenses she won’t be going out much. She wants some outdoor area to walk her dog aside from the concrete sidewalk. She also is very into fitness and a gym nearby is important to her.
Now we just need to be patient till she hears more of the details.</p>
<p>Dmd… I notice that your daughter refers several times to having a “husband”. I assume that refers to a male companion who resides with her and is frequently available to walk with her, especially at night. Mom60 has made several references to the fact that her daughter is planning to live on her own.</p>
<p>There’s a difference between where a person who is living alone might choose to live and where a pair or group of roommates might choose. First rule of being street smart is to avoid walking alone in certain areas if one can avoid it. </p>
<p>I think your daughters’ comments about the “spate of rapes” and all of the areas she “avoids’” kinda proves my point. Plus the fact that she & husband moved from the East Bay suggest that they were somewhat familiar with the area before moving in. And I’m getting the sense that since they are renting from your sister, they might have been offered a better-than-typical rate on the unit. Padmapper says that current rents in the area are about $1800/mo for a studio, $2400 for a 1 bedroom. </p>
<p>And no, it is not “racism”. I personally grew up on a border town that was predominantly Latino; one reason that I love the Mission is the overall ambiance. My d. now live in Bed Stuy in Brooklyn. I also moved into the Mission after finishing school in Berkeley, but I lived off of Dolores street closer to Noe Valley. I used to be a criminal defense lawyer practicing in SF & my ex still is; we know where the violent crime in the city takes place. The problem with gang violence is that it is random, involves gunfire, and that the bullets often hit innocent bystanders. Plus there is also a lot of street violence (strong arm robberies), vandalism, burglary, & theft from vehicles in the area – I’m surprised that your daughter has not mentioned her car being broken into as she parks on the street. It was a fairly regular event for kids to smash out the windows of every car parked along my ex’s block just for the heck of it, and my car suffered the same fate when parked there only for a couple of hours one evening. (Don’t know now, as my ex currently does not own a car). </p>
<p>Padmapper shows rents in the Sunset/Parkside area (west of 19th ave) to be around $1200-$1300 for a studio or one bedroom. Similar listings in outer Richmond, right near the park, though much more variable there. And I just feel a lot more comfortable telling Mom60’s daughter & dog to look out there. I agree that the commute to her Nob Hill job will probably be longer. But the dog might enjoy Lands End, GG park, or Ocean Beach. I assume that young woman arriving home after a long day of work may need to walk the dog, by herself.</p>
<p>By the way – to Mom60 – I’ve found padmapper to be the most efficient way that a parent can help their kid locate rentals in a specific area. Not that I’ve ever found my kids apartments for them, but it has given me a very good sense of rents in specific areas, so I can give realistic suggestions. Craigslist is the best source for listings – unless your daughter works with an agent, she will want to stay on top of the listings and arrive early at open houses/showings on weekends. Of course you never rent from Craiglist without seeing the unit and meeting the landlord on the premises, as some of the listing are scams. (Nonexistent unit)</p>
<p>Dog parks…</p>
<p>[Dog</a> Parks - San Francisco - List of Dog Parks and Off-Leash Play Areas](<a href=“http://sanfrancisco.about.com/od/environmentnature/a/dogparks.htm]Dog”>http://sanfrancisco.about.com/od/environmentnature/a/dogparks.htm)</p>
<p><a href=“http://sanfrancisco.about.com/library/sfmaps/blsanfranciscodogparksmap.htm[/url]”>http://sanfrancisco.about.com/library/sfmaps/blsanfranciscodogparksmap.htm</a></p>
<p>Images…Land’s End</p>
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<p>Walnut Creek has a LOT to offer. Please come visit our wonderful downtown area and close proximity to BART!</p>
<p>^^^ Walnut Creek is pretty – but very burby. It’s where young people go after they marry, have kids and realize public schools in Berkeley and Oakland are problematic, and there’s no money for privates. So they move to Walnut Creek, etc. For those wanting a more urban area, or be closer to the city or the Bay, I wouldn’t recommend anything farther east than the Berkeley/Oakland hills… that is, unless there was that pesky school issue to consider…</p>
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<p>The use of the term “inner city” to refer to a poor or high crime area and the use of the term “suburbs” to refer to a wealthy or low crime area does not make a lot of sense in San Francisco and the surrounding areas. The urban areas span all levels of wealth and poverty. The suburban areas similarly span all levels of wealth and poverty. The same goes for crime rates.</p>
<p>Seems like the use of those terms that way must have started in some place where an entire city was made up of poor or high crime areas, but every surrounding suburban area was wealthy or low crime.</p>
<p>Calmom: yes, my daughter is married. Yes, she and her husband rent a tiny room in my sister’s house in the Mission. But she has three jobs (yes, three), is a runner, training to run a marathon, and consequently spends a lot of time out and about on her own. Her husband is a grad student at Berkeley.</p>