where would u go?

gomestar · September 4, 2006, 2:46pm

“yale, princeton, middlebury”

Middlebury??? where does that come from??? You couldn’t slip in a place like MIT, Amherst, Williams, but rather a random small LAC that isn’t top-3.

Also, I have family in the midwest and southwest and both are VERY familiar with Cornell’s prestige and rank.

And clearly you don’t know how to use the rankings. You want to know the order of prestige? Try this:

<ol>
<li>Princeton 4.9

<ol>
<li>Harvard 4.9</li>
<li>Yale 4.9</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>Penn 4.5</li>
<li>Columbia 4.6
Dartmouth 4.4</li>
<li>Cornell 4.6
WUSTL 4.1</li>
</ol></li>
</ol>

elsijfdl · September 4, 2006, 2:48pm

“Cornell is ranked in the top 25 in pretty much everything which is something you can’t really say for Brown, Penn and Dartmouth.”

“if you look at some of the international rankings like the Academic Ranking of World Universities and the Times Higher World University Ranking, Cornell is usually the 4th or 5th Ivy.”

Yeah, i don’t really know anything about the relative strengths of cornell’s programs vs. other ivy league schools.

i have to be clear that i am commenting solely on you tell someone “i go to cornell” and the degree to which they are impressed.

On that note, i go to northwestern however recently i’ve been very interested in east coast schools, especially for grad school, and i personally would probably attend either interchangeably, northwestern and cornell, that is.

Alexandre · September 4, 2006, 2:48pm

The rankings are not an indication of prestuge. The peer assessment score is.

Harvard = 4.9/5.0
Princeton = 4.9/5.0
Yale = 4.9/5.0

Columbia = 4.6/5.0
Cornell = 4.6/5.0
Penn = 4.5/5.0
Brown = 4.4/5.0
Dartmouth = 4.4/5.0

Like I said, you have the Big 3, and the remaining 5. All of them are mega-prestigious, but there is no such thing as a “bottom” when discussing the Ivies.

Even if you look at the overall rankings of the USNWR, you have H,P and Y at 1-3 and Columbia, Dartmouth, Cornell and Brown are ranked 9-15. Again, there are two distinct groups…the top 3 and the next 5…no bottoms!

As for Cornell’s reputation in the Midwest, it is very strong. I lived in the Detroit are and in the Chicago are. In both ares I lived, Cornell was better known that Rice or WUSTL. Yes, Cornell is known for being intense academically, but that does not make it any less prestigious or respected. There are curently 1,000 (7%) Midwestern undergraduate students enrolled at Cornell. Also, of Cornell’s 245,000 living alums, a whopping 22,000 (9%) are midwestern.

<a href=“University Factbook - Institutional Research & Planning”>University Factbook - Institutional Research & Planning;

elsijfdl · September 4, 2006, 2:49pm

“And clearly you don’t know how to use the rankings. You want to know the order of prestige? Try this:”

that is the order in which administrators at institutions would rank the academic quality of each respective college. It has nothing to do with prestige among the general population.

elsijfdl · September 4, 2006, 2:51pm

“You couldn’t slip in a place like MIT, Amherst, Williams, but rather a random small LAC that isn’t top-3.”

I don’t really know anyone who goes to MIT, Amherst, or Williams well; Middlebury is considered very prestigious from where i’m from. I hate to point it out, but cornell most definitely is not top 3 either, and middlebury is ranked much higher in its category, but that has nothing to do with what we were talking about, that is just me defending middlebury.

gomestar · September 4, 2006, 3:02pm

*Note: computer messed up and posted my previous message before i was done with it *

“that is the order in which administrators at institutions would rank the academic quality of each respective college. It has nothing to do with prestige among the general population”

and you don’t know the prestige of the general population, just the opnions of you and your friends. Besides, the general population isn’t who you should be concerned about. It’s those in higher education, right?

I menion middlebury because although it’s a great school, the majority of my friends don’t know this and we’re on the East Coast.

elsijfdl · September 4, 2006, 3:09pm

“and you don’t know the prestige of the general population, just the opnions of you and your friends.”

yeah, that’s what i said, it was you who was comparing peer assessment scores to prestige among the general population, which is what we were talking about.

“Besides, the general population isn’t who you should be concerned about. It’s those in higher education, right?”

I can’t answer that, but the original question was how prestigious are those 5 schools relative to each other.

“I menion middlebury because although it’s a great school, the majority of my friends don’t know this and we’re on the East Coast.”

Well it’s a pretty small school, and i can’t argue with this, it’s a result of us being from different places.

You don’t really need to defend your school vs. me, it was just that everyone was putting cornell at the top of that list and i wanted to point out that it wasn’t that way everywhere, the point of these boards is to get a range of perspectives, it wouldn’t be very interesting if everyone responded in the exact same way.

Alexandre · September 4, 2006, 3:38pm

The “general public” knows nothing of universities. Only society’s elite do. In the Midwest, where I spent a good 10 years of my adult life, Cornell is generally more prestigious than Rice or WUSTL. My numbers don’t lie. Currently, 1,000 of Cornell’s undergrads come from the Midwest and over 20,000 of Cornell’s living alums hail from the Midwest. Those numbers clearly show that Cornell is very highly regarded in the Midwest. Maybe your particular school doesn’t have a good connection to Cornell, but the Midwest, by and large, does.

And like I said, even if you look at the overall ranking of the USNWR, the Ivies are clustered into two main groups. Those ranked among the top 3 and those ranked between #9 and #15. But trust me, outside of high school, the USNWR rankings is not an indication of prestige. If you want prestige in the real world or in the world of academe, look to universities with excellent all-around academic excellence.

kimfuge · September 5, 2006, 10:37am

I’d also have to go with:

Chicago/Cornell/Northwestern
WashU/Rice

People tend to look down on Cornell because it’s less selective than the other Ivies; if you order Ivies in terms of selectivity, then statistically Cornell will come out at the bottom of the list. However, as Alexandre has emphasized a couple of times now, what counts more than selectivity is overall academic excellence. In this regard, except for HYP, the Ivies are roughly equals.

Rice, WashU, Cornell, Chicago, and Northwestern are all roughly same in selectivity, but the latter three would be stronger in overall academic excellence (e.g. U.S. News PA scores). While there is generally a very strong correlation between selectivity and overall academic excellence, it’s stronger for some cases than others.

jazzymom · September 5, 2006, 2:50pm

Son had the choice of Cornell, Northwestern, Wash U. (Also Berkeley and UCLA). He chose Wash U. After the visit, it shot to the top of the list for him because it had a very warm, welcoming, friendly, fun vibe, a beautiful campus, the programs he was interested in, and a flexible attitude toward changing majors or double majoring. Prestige, in the end, did not matter to him as much as feeling “at home” on campus. Also, he likes mild, not intense winters. CA boy.

Alexandre · September 5, 2006, 3:19pm

Jazzymon is 100% correct. Chosing a university solely on the grounds of prestige is a recipe for disaster. Prestige and academic quality should play a small role, but overall fit should always be the #1 criterion.

pateta00 · September 5, 2006, 3:46pm

Ditto!!!

kk19131 · September 5, 2006, 7:20pm

“KK, I disagree with you. In terms of university prestige, Rice and WUSTL are not on not quite on par with the other three schools. Don’t get me wrong, all 5 universities are highly respected where it counts, but in terms of university prestige, Rice and WUSTL are not quite there.”

“Currently, 1,000 of Cornell’s undergrads come from the Midwest and over 20,000 of Cornell’s living alums hail from the Midwest. Those numbers clearly show that Cornell is very highly regarded in the Midwest.”

-What I hold now, and have always held, is that most universities have huge boosts in their prestige in the areas where they are located. This prestige tends to taper off the farther one gets from that area. In the Houston area, I’m sure Rice would be more prestigious than Chicago, Northwestern, WashU and Cornell. In Chicagoland, Chicago and Northwestern would be on top; WashU is huge in the St. Louis area, and Cornell is big in the East.

Let’s look at some numbers:

Chicago:

Midwest 33%
Mid-Atlantic 20%
New England 9%
South 9%
Southwest 5%
West 12%
In-State 17%

Chicago is 33% Midwest and 17% In-State.

Northwestern:

15% Mid Atlantic 
5% New England
43% Midwest
10% South
4% Southwest
15% West
25% In-State

Northwestern is 43% Midwest and 25% In-State.

Rice:

Mid Atlantic 6%
New England 2.6%
Midwest 7.6%
Southeast 9.8%
West 8.6%
Southwest 61.5%
In-State 60%

Rice is 61.5% Southwest and 60% In-state.

Cornell:

Middle Atlantic 17%
New England 9%
New York State 33%
Midwest 7%
Southeast 6%
Southwest 3%
West 10%

Cornell is 59% Northeast and 33% In-State.

-Looking at the data, Rice is the least geographically diverse/most regional school on the list, followed VERY closely by Cornell. In fact, Chicago is the most diverse having both the fewest people from its home state AND geographic region. Cornell, like all schools, gets huge prestige boots in its area, boosts that taper off the farther away you get from it. Cornell is without a doubt a very prestigious school, but when it comes to geographic representation, it, like most schools has much more power drawing qualified applicants from its own region than others. This fact displays that name brand is generally stronger in some places than others. The data mirrors what I have stated: most schools in the country are regional, not national.

If someone is to argue that the geographic distribution of the student bodies doesn’t matter, that “prestige” in a different area comes from something else, then provide that “something else” and I’d be happy to talk about it. However, it is absurd to say that Cornell is any more nationally prestigious than Rice when they are both highly regional institutions.

gomestar · September 5, 2006, 8:43pm

“it, like most schools has much more power drawing qualified applicants from its own region than others”

dont forget the VERY important fact that tution for students enrolled in 3 of the school is reduced for NY state residents. Many studnets from NY apply to these schools as a result (you would too). It’s easy to draw applicants from its own region when you offer them $12,000.

“Cornell, like all schools, gets huge prestige boots in its area, boosts that taper off the farther away you get from it”

speculation (now what have you told me about speculation??) ;)

My observations have been a little different, at least after having been interviewed from a few firms based in LA, one in Las Vegas, and one in Arizona (and i’m in one of Cornell’s smallest schools that is around 60% New York residents). In the northeast, Cornell is certainly regarded as the most ‘prestigious’ school listed, though my uncle from the northern california area said the same thing. These are just my experiences, though…

kk19131 · September 5, 2006, 9:18pm

“dont forget the VERY important fact that tution for students enrolled in 3 of the school is reduced for NY state residents. Many studnets from NY apply to these schools as a result (you would too). It’s easy to draw applicants from its own region when you offer them $12,000.”

-Indeed the Cornell’s state schools are cheaper. Does this change the fact that more people from the region attend the school? No it does not. This also doesn’t make Cornell more widely known in other parts of the country. The fact is that Cornell, like most schools is highly regional; it’s region: the Northeast, from where 59% of its students come.

“Cornell, like all schools, gets huge prestige boots in its area, boosts that taper off the farther away you get from it”

speculation (now what have you told me about speculation??)”

-I’m not speculating. I have added a definition to “prestige”- regional representation of undergraduates. Using this added criterion for prestige, my conclusions are completely substantiated.

“In the northeast, Cornell is certainly regarded as the most ‘prestigious’ school listed, though my uncle from the northern california area said the same thing. These are just my experiences, though…”

This is exactly what I have said. I would expect that of the list, Cornell is the most prestigious in the Northeast, as it has large numbers of students from that area. As for California, I would expect that Stanford, Berkeley, and UCLA are far more prestigious than Cornell in that regard, just like I would expect Chicago and Northwestern to have more name power in the Midwest, and Rice in the Southwest. :rolleyes:

finale · September 5, 2006, 9:29pm

Any of those who are prestige conscientious would know of the Ivy League schools, it doesn’t matter what location.

kk19131 · September 5, 2006, 10:17pm

“Any of those who are prestige conscientious would know of the Ivy League schools, it doesn’t matter what location.”

-First off, I would not mix “prestige conscientious” with “top students”. Secondly, even if comparably top students do know of ALL the elite schools (which is a pretty far stretch), that still does not change the fact that most schools- yes even elite ones- are highly regional.

How else could a school like Rice have 60% of its student population be from one region and still contain academically strong students? Stanford has a very large number of people from California, yet has one of the strongest student bodies. What does this tell me? This tells me that name brand “grabbing” power of schools is generally much stronger in their areas than other areas.

What about the University of Pennsylvania. This is an Ivy League school, and yet is still over 50% Northeastern. How can this be explained? Easily: most schools have stronger names within in their geographic regions than outside of them. This allows the schools to attract and matriculate top students from within their region at the high rates that they do.

Gator_Bait_23 · September 5, 2006, 11:20pm

University of Florida…Number one choice since i was 6 years old

ballerina · September 5, 2006, 11:29pm

kk19131, finale said “prestige conscientious” and NOT “top students.” Thus those who are into prestige would know all of the elite schools, which ISN’T a pretty far stretch.

gomestar · September 5, 2006, 11:52pm

my point was you consider Cornell’s number including the contract colleges (please, they’re not state schools, get informed) when arts and sciences, engineering, aap, and hotel do not offer cheaper tuition. The numbers from these schools would show far greater geographic diversity.

Although Cornell attracts many students from the northeast, its name is far from regional, maybe even more-so than any of the other schools bball listed.

Plus, how can any ivy NOT be “regional”??? Most of the very best high schools in the US are in the Northeast, and a huge percentage of the US population is in the Northeast - NYC, Philly, Boston, plus a bunch of other cities are all within a few hours of each other. The greater NY metro area alone has over 23,000,000 people. How convinient to have all 8 ivy’s plus MIT, Swarthmore, William, and Amherst, plus other schools like JHU, CMU, RPI, URochester, Wesleyan, Boston C, Boston U, Colgate and a bunch others all within a few hours at most in between them (i know I’m leaving out so many schools, just bear with me).

where would u go?

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