My daughter will start high school in September. She thinks she wants to go to an elite college. Will she need Calculus? Is AP bio enough as far as advanced science courses go? I’m mostly curious at this point. She’s going to a math and science heavy NYC public school but she’s more a humanities kid.
Not necessarily, but as a reference point 80% of accepted students at Wesleyan had taken calculus so best to be on track for at least Honors Calc
Thank you. I’m only just learning this! Funny because my daughter wants to go to Wesleyan! So she does need to get to Calculus. It’s going to be a tough 4 years!
For most colleges, the minimum is precalculus; if she completes precalculus 11th grade or earlier, it is best take calculus if she is concerned with highly selective schools or is considering a major that requires calculus.
A very small number of colleges expect calculus to be taken in high school. These include Caltech, Harvey Mudd, and a few other private colleges’ engineering divisions.
For science, having all three of biology, chemistry, and physics is preferred, with additional course work at an advanced or AP level in her area of interest if she wants to do a science or engineering major.
She should not neglect English (4 years), history and social studies (3-4 years), foreign language (level 3 or 4 or higher), and art or music in selecting courses for high school.
For science, for elite colleges, in general it’s good to have one year each of biology, chemistry, and physics and then the AP level class in at least one of them
Thank you @ucbalumnus and @ciervo
She would have regents level Bio, Chem and Physics. She could then take AP bio. Her school would require Zooology or another lab prerequisite for AP bio. So it’s hard! She’ll need to take a summer class or double up on math or she’ll only have precalculus in her senior year. She’ll definitely take AP English classes as a JR and SR and Social Studies as a Soph JR and SR as well as AP French as a SR.
She basically she’ll have the minimum required but not more in science and math (somehow)
If her middle school math placement only allows reaching precalculus in 12th grade without doubling up or taking summer math, that is less likely to be a negative point in holistic college admission than stopping math before 12th grade for reasons other than running out of math courses at the high school.
It would be completely about her placement. She’s going to an elite math/science high school, but her middle school didn’t prepare her. She’s not planning to major in science. If she doubles up it would only be for college.
If she’s going to Stuy, Bx Sci or Bklyn Tech she will be competing against students who will be taking lots of math and sci. Since she’s a humanities kid, it will be to her advantage to do big things with that such as get involved on the paper, literary journal etc. Perhaps do something in the summers related to her humanities interest. She should take 4 yrs of all the major subjects. If she takes AP Env Sci senior yr. instead of AP Bio it shouldn’t be a big deal if she’s not going to be a STEM major. What I’ve been told is that you want to take the most rigorous courseload that you can successfully get A’s in. If Sci or Math isn’t her thing than don’t put too much pressure on yourselves. Also, if she goes to one of those schools I mentioned, colleges will know that she’s very bright and her coursework was not easy. Finally, lots of kids at the specialied HSs apply to the same handul of colleges. When it’s time to apply, think outside the box and maybe look further away. GL
If she will not major in science or engineering in college, it is unlikely that doubling up math will be valuable enough to be worth the schedule hassles.
Wow thank you for your reply @citymama9
She is going to one of those three schools and she plans to be involved in theater, newspaper and literary mag among other things. She loves science, but she’s not going to be one of those kids who excel in it. She’s already behind in math. But I don’t want to put to much pressure on her or myself. Thank you for the help!
Thanks @ucbalumnus!
You don’t know what the next year will bring, let alone the next 4. Goal should be learning, enjoying HS and keeping doors open.
Of course! @ClarinetDad16 so true. I really have no idea what will happen and how she’ll change. She’s in for a big experience. I told her I just want her to learn. Although I want her to be prepared, but I have no idea how she’ll do in this school or what she’ll want a year from now.
One bit of advice I can add to what I said is this: ask her to give you her phone when she’s doing her HW or studying for a test. It’s amazing how much quicker it gets done when they aren’t checking instagram. snapchat, texting… The biggest adjustment in Fresh yr is learning time mgmt. Stress is reduced when that’s mastered. Even my daughter admitted that she accomplishes more when her phone is another room. Enjoy her first year!
If she is on track to take precalculus in 12th grade (i.e. ready for calculus as a college frosh, if she needs it), then she is at normal math level, not behind.
Now, she may look “behind” if she is enrolled in a selective math/science-focused high school, since there is a selection and self-selection effect on the students in that high school. But she is not really behind as far as US high schools and colleges are concerned.
Thank you! This is my first post and i really appreciate the help. I will definitely take her phone. She can’t stop looking at it now.
Even if she placed into Geometry she won’t be on the same track as the kids in honors sequence math. The “behind” feeling will always be there. But she has great strengths. I don’t know anything yet though. I don’t know how she’ll do when she gets there.
Going to Stuy/BxSci/BkTech is going to be super competitive. If you acknowledge your kid is going to be slightly behind in Math, then she needs to get extra involved in ECs and become a leader in clubs/sports. You are going to be competing again 100+ kids in each one of those schools all of whom will apply to the top Nescac/Ivy schools. Academically those high schools are excellent and your daughter will have a near college experience in terms of the course options and level of interest among the students, however her chances of getting into a top school is going to be significantly less than had she gone to another of the top city public schools that are not shssat test focused, this is because the shshat schools concentrate the most competitive and agressive academic kids… its really too bad but most NYC parents want their kids to get into Stuy/BxSci… but honestly its a disservice sometimes because the competition is so fierce… A kid with the aptitude to get into Stuy or BxSci would be a top 10 kid at ElRo or Lab and have better odds of getting subsequently into a top school…
As a math tutor, I can tell you that you can’t just put kids in math classes that they aren’t ready for. Math is a sequence. Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II/trig, Pre-Calc, Calc. If a student wasn’t advanced past grade-level math in middle school, she has to just pick up where she left off after eighth grade. I’m sure that, if your daughter gets strong grades in all classes (including math) and shines in the areas she loves, she would have a chance to get into many fabulous schools. Don’t compare her to the kids taking BC Calc as juniors. Those kids are in the 98th percentile in the country for math.
That being said, I know kids who are taking honors/AP classes for all subjects and getting straight As. There are probably 50 kids in my son’s class of 700 who will take BC Calculus as juniors and are also stellar in their AP English classes. The best you can tell your daughter is to study hard and do her best! Every student has their own individual talents!
So much to think about and reply to! I’m so grateful for thee exchange. No one in real life know I’m thinking about these things.
First @Regulus7 schools like Lab and Elro took very different kids from my d’s middle school. Top kids got into Elro, but Lab took kids who were in 80’s. This is a new trend with Lab. My D wanted to be with high achieving kids. She could have gone to Bard, but it didn’t have the same exciting vibe. So it’s a trade off. We never thought about the advantage of a less competitive group of kids! No one mentioned anything like that to me and it’s all a surprise. Now she has the issue of competitive smart kids and not being in the same position as kids from g&t middle schools who have been accelerated. She got a 90 on her regents algebra, a 98 on her report card, but said she did not do well on the placement test.
But she does have huge strength in writing. She’s already gotten gold medal in Scholastic and intends to do a lot of writing in high school. She has music too.
She’s been an A student her whole school career. And she’s excited about high school so she should do really well.
@homerdog I hope she’ll do really well in the classes she gets. I hope that shining elsewhere will make a difference. But I know too that there are many kids who are in really advanced math and humanities and excell in all and they shine in other ways too!
@MurphyBrown I don’t know why most kids who get in to elite college take calc now. It wasn’t like that in my time! I never thought about the ACT and SAT and the timing for her! Thank you for the tip.