Which Is Best?

Colleges & Universities University of Michigan
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<p>Okay, this thread is strictly for my own personal satisfaction, but I suppose that’s most online forum topics. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Anyways, I’ve always had three real “dream” schools in UMich, NYU, and George Washington University. UMich because, well, I’ve been a Wolverine since birth, and the others for their academic reputations and big city opportunities. </p>

<p>When I started applying to colleges at the beginning of the school year, I had other priorities and didn’t even bother applying to NYU or GW, the two schools I arguably wanted to attend the most. Needless to say, my biggest factor for choosing UMich is no longer a factor at all, and I can’t help but second-guess myself. All things aside, though, the University of Michigan is, traditionally, a “better” school than the other two, right? :confused:</p>

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<p>Well in terms of rank (US News 2010) Michigan is #27, NYU is #32, and GWU is # 53. Some departments in these schools are superior to those of Michigan’s. It all depends on what you are interested in majoring in and how well you fit in to these schools to make a fair assessment of what is “better”.</p>

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<p>GW is obviously better in political science, international relations, and things of that sort. But overall I’d say Michigan is the strongest of the three (Ross trumps Stern according Business Week)</p>

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<p>Thing is, I’m going to major in PolySci, and while UMich has a higher ranked program, NYU and GW certainly win out on location. So with that in mind, what would be “best”?</p>

<p>My three biggest reasons for going to UMich were family, money, and a girl. :confused: Unfortunately, my parents went through a nasty divorce and are each going to move to the opposite end of the country (therefore, no locational advantage). Money is always an issue, but my grandma left me 100k for college, so it would suck going into grad school with debt, but if the shoe fits, I’d be willing to do it. The latter was, obviously, the biggest mistake of my life.</p>

<p>EDIT: I’ve always been under the understanding that, from a curriculum standpoint, GW was best in IR, but not PolySci/public policy? Was I wrong? Because their ED has been extended through January 15th, though it is binding…</p>

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<p>They are all great schools, so I definately would not decide to attend one strictly base off ranking… The three schools you’ve mention I also have interest in attending myself. I can’t really suggest any school out of the three as I wouldn’t know which to decide either. Though I can say at this point in deciding between the three its completely safe to overlook the ranking, as they are all recognized schools. What do you want to major in etc… do you want to spend all your undergraduate years in a small or large city etc… what exactly are you looking for etc…</p>

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<p>I also plan to study political science/ international relations and economics. Yes, GWU is more recognized in those areas, but as well as NYU and UMich. You are right, studying poli sci and econ in a large city could be marvellous .</p>

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<p>Ya, GW is definitely the more opportunistic location for poly sci, they are all extremely expensive so that can’t help, but a thing that may help you pick is that each school is completely different. Michigan is a big public school, lots of sports, lots of kids. NYU (which I have visited and decided to apply to) is still pretty big, but there is not true campus and no true sports…it feels more like a campus than you would think, but still no campus. GW is the smallest of the three, I feel like it is kind of a mix of the two schools…hope this helps</p>

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<p>Hint–the study of poli sci is not all about what happens in Washington, DC. It has more to do with theories of government and social sctructures, voter behavior, etc. It can be done very well far from DC. Some schools in Europe are very good for it too.</p>

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<p>The fact that this discussion has been dominated by Coolbrezze and Crono Triggerfan just signifies to me that it is not worth thoroughly reading. If I were to guess, though, it probably reflects Crono Triggerfan’s incredible lack of knowledge about his prospective major and contains the erroneous notion that GWU and UMich are in the same league (when they simply aren’t).</p>

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<p>

Why would you even post a comment on Crono Triggerfan thread if you will not thoroughly read it?</p>

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<p>

God, who pooped in your cereal this morning? :/</p>

<p>If you read at all, I’m not suggesting that they are. They’re just very different schools, and while U of M’s Political Science department has a significant amount of clout, there’s something to be said for being located in our nation’s capitol or the headquarters of the United Nations. And what would lead you to draw the conclusion that I’m politically benighted from this question? </p>

<p>

That’s a very good point. Many of the best programs (including UMich) are very far from any sort of political stronghold. Still, though, having the opportunity to experience firsthand the system at work wouldn’t be a bad experience by any means.</p>

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<p>motion12345</p>

<p>I don’t think that Crono was implying that they are in the same league, because overall they aren’t (unless your talking price :P)…I think he was talking about his intended major in which case they are; more goes into the quality of the major than the school providing it. For example, a BBA from Stern is probably better than a BBA from Ross (although Biz Week says otherwise) based off the opportunities that the city of New York presents.</p>

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<p>Overall, Michigan is stronger than NYU and much stronger than GWU. Academically, Michigan is one of the nation’s top 10 or 15 academic institutions whereas NYU is arguably one of the top 30 or so and GWU wouldn’t make the top 50. According ot the USNWR, Michigan’s peer assessment score is 4.4 (tied with Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Penn and UVa), NYU’s is 3.8 (tied with Notre Dame, Penn State, UCSD, USC, University of Washington and William and Mary) and GWU’s is 3.4 (tied with BU, Case Western, Pitt, Rochester, RPI). According to the Fiske Guide, Michigan gets an academic rating of **<strong><em>, NYU an academic rating of *</em></strong>1/2 and GWU an academic rating of ***1/2. Like I said, overall, Michigan’s reputation is better than NYU’s and much better than GWU’s.</p>

<p>When it comes to Political Science, Michigan is significantly better than NYU and much, much, much better than GWU. The fact that the OP is even asking suggests he did not really do much research on the subject, but rather, relied on what other not-so-well informed people think and say. Below is a breakdown of the three departments:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Michigan’s Political Science department is #4 in the US according to the USNWR with an overall peer assessment score of 4.7/5.0 and ranked #1 in American Politics and #5 in International Politics. Its peers in Political Science are Cal, Harvard, Princeton, Stanford and Yale. </p></li>
<li><p>NYU’s Political Science department is ranked #17 in the nation according to the USNWR with an overall peer assessment score of 3.8/5.0 and is not ranked among the top 20 in American Politics but is ranked #10 in International Politics. </p></li>
<li><p>GWU’s Political Science department is ranked #39 in the nation with an overall peer assessment score of 2.9/5.0 and is not ranked among the top 20 in either American or International Politics. </p></li>
<li><p>According to another highly regarded ranking, the National Research Council, Michigan’s Political Science department is ranked #4 in the nation, GWU is ranked #47 in the nation and NYU is ranked #56 in the nation. </p></li>
</ul>

<p>I am sorry to say that even though NYU is excellent in Political Science, it is no Michigan…and as for GWU, it does not even come close.</p>

<p>jkaplan, Stern is not better, or worse, than Ross when it comes BBA. Admittedly, if one wishes to go into IBanking, Stern competes nicely with Ross, but does not win out. In most other ways, Ross is slightly better than Stern. Overall, Ross is ranked slightly higher than Stern in both the USNWR and Businessweek.</p>

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<p>^Thank you Alexandre for giving Crono and Cool the information that was, somehow, unknown to them (even though their prospective major is supposedly political science for crying out loud).</p>

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<p>Thanks for the information, Alexandre. I’m very aware of the numbers and where Michigan stands in relation to the other two, but I’m merely trying to objectively measure the value of a great program in a subpar political location to a good program on prime ground. </p>

<p>No need to be such a prick, motion, jeez.</p>

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<p>Crono, those are all very different campus experiences. Where do you feel most at home? Eg. I realize NYU is not as strong, but for a person who loves urban life, what a fabulous location. But NOT the “college town” feel at all…</p>

<p>My point has nothing to do with academic rank. However, if I were your grandmother who left you the nice nest egg, I would want you to use it to be happy. I would also have hoped like the dickens it would mean a debt free undergrad experience. However, in today’s college cost climate, that is not the case unless you are instate at Mich. GW and NYU are privates, meaning tuition is about 30k more.</p>

<p>Since your parents are unfortunately moving and splitting up, I would seriously consider attending Michigan undergrad for the following reasons:</p>

<ol>
<li>Right now I believe you have in-state residency. Keep it. It is worth a differential of apx. $22/k a year I believe. Trust that you will be happier without debt.</li>
<li>Treat yourself to a “free” undergrad experience at a top ranked, big 10 U. with a grad school reward of being competitive for NYU grad or GW (if grad program is avail/suits - don’t know your major well at those schools). That way, you experience both types of campus/environments. It is a better investment to consider debt for graduate studies rather than rack it up undergrad. Your strengths will have fully emerged; you may earn most of your way as a GSI; you’ll be really confident in your direction and undoubtedly well prepared from a higher ranked program. Other schools know that Mich does not inflate its undergrad gpas, so don’t worry about that.</li>
</ol>

<p>Truthfully, even though your parents are moving, you will not really feel it that much as you’ll be very busy during semester, breaks are short (and I predict you’ll spend most of them sleeping or studying) and their homes will not quite feel like home to you anyway. You will likely still have a better social support system here than in their new locations. It’s still easy to feel close by phone, skype, text, email etc.</p>

<p>And re: the girl…never regret those folks who turn up in your life just to cause you to take a path. I swear sometimes that’s really the case ; )</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision.
PS Are you aware that NYU is notoriously stingy with merit and fin aid? I am including that fact in my advice, just so you know.</p>

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<p>^^ I agree, I don’t see a downfall in a “free” undergrad experience at one of the top public universities in the country :P</p>

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<p>

I have done extensive research into all the schools political science, international relations, and economics programs. All the schools seem to score well, but GWU program(s) were more raved, specifically speaking of undergraduate. OP, either school would be a excellent choice ( and this is coming from someone who has also research into the schools with interest).</p>

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<p>“I’m merely trying to objectively measure the value of a great program in a subpar political location to a good program on prime ground.”</p>

<p>That’s a valid question but like I said, research into the matter should clearly dismiss any doubt. Comparing GWU to Michigan for Political Science would be like comparing San Jose State University for Computer Science. San Jose state University has a respectable Computer Science program and is located on prime ground in the heart of Silicon Valley. But can it compete with the likes of Carnegie Mellon, Cornell or the UIUC in Computer Science? Definitely not. </p>

<p>Coolbrezze, GWU’s Economics and Political Science departments are solid but do not come close to Michigan’s. Beware of student-based surveys. According to virtually every major US-based ranking, Michigan’s Econ department is ranked around #10 in the US and Michigan’s Political Science department is ranked among the too 3 or 4 in the nation. GWU’s Economics department is seldom ranked among the top 50 in the nation and its Political Science department is usually ranked around #40 in the nation. Those are significant differences.</p>

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<p>^ not questioning your facts, rather trying to find rank of my other schools-- do you have a link for the econ rankings? I’m planning on majoring in econ</p>