Which is better Villanova or holy cross?

<p>I took Knight's post from the holy cross thread and added here to see what Villanova students say.</p>

<p>I would like a logical comparison of the two and not just "this is the college i go to so, yep its better."</p>

<p>Here is information I came up with comparing the two, but I know there are other factors, which you guys can point out to state which is better. </p>

<p>Nova avg ACT score: 30
HC avg ACT score: 28-29</p>

<p>US news ranks HC around #30 on the liberal arts list.
US news ranks Nova on a totally different list as #1 in regional North Universities. (tough to compare based on US news putting them in different categories.)</p>

<p>Business week ranks Nova undergrad b school as #7 and doesnt list HC in the top 25 for business. I tried to find a undergrad med ranking but couldn't find one. </p>

<p>Barrons ranks both Nova and HC as Most competitive: in the same category as the ivys, gtown, ND, JHU etc.</p>

<p>According to the National Merit website: HC in their 2010 freshman class has 0 merit scholars and Villanova has 9. (nova is a larger school, approx 7,000 compared to 3000).</p>

<p>HC has a greater endowment at 500 million and Nova has at 300 million. </p>

<p>To me they look pretty similar, nova having a bit of an edge, but everyone has different in puts...what do you guys think?</p>

<p>If you look at the statistics for the class of 2010 you will see:
Holy Cross SAT (mid range): Math 600-690, Reading: 590-680
Villanova SAT (mid range): Math 620-710, Reading : 590-680
Holy Cross ACT : 27-31
Villanova: 28-31</p>

<p>It makes no sense to look at Business Week rankings because Holy Cross is a liberal arts college and does not have a business department. (They do offer and economic major and a joint accounting economics major but none of the traditional business majors.)</p>

<p>Comparing US News rankings is also misleading. HC is #32 in a category with some of the best liberal arts colleges in the country (Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Middlebury, Wellesley). Villanova is #1 in a less prestigious category in which #2 is Providence College followed by Loyola, Bentley, College of New Jersey, and Fairfield. </p>

<p>HC : Acceptance rate for class of 2010: 35% with a yield of 30%
Villanova: Acceptance rate for the class of 2010: 45% with a yield of 25%</p>

<p>Those are the facts. Judge as you like. They are very different kinds of schools...one a liberal arts college the other a regional university.</p>

<p>Regarding-Villanova is #1 in a "less prestigious category" . The category is not based on prestige. It is based on a school that is primarily an undergraduate institution.</p>

<p>Villanova is not ranked in USNWR "National Rankings" because it offers a select number of Doctoral degrees. Villanova has been ranked #1 in The regional North category for a number of years.</p>

<p>USNWR defines :</p>

<p>Regional Universities</p>

<p>Regional Universities offer a full range of undergrad programs and some master's programs but few doctoral programs. These rankings are split into four regions: North, South, Midwest, and West.</p>

<p>Villanova has increased the number of Doctoral programs and degrees over the last few years and may qualify in the "National" category in the very near future.
Villanova's internal study indicated that they would rank in the top 50 of USNWR if/when they are rated in the National category.</p>

<p>That is correct. The category is not based on prestige. However, the schools at the top of the National Liberal Arts Category are more prestigious than those in the regional categories. No one can argue against that. Villanova is certainly a very good school, but if it were in the national category, it would certainly not be ranked #1.</p>

<p>You really should not compare the ranking of HC with the ranking of Villanova. The pool of "competing schools" is different. Is #32 in a group with top schools Amherst, Williams, and Swarthmore better than #1 in a group with top schools Providence, Loyola, or CNJ? The comparison is senseless.</p>

<p>jfenn999- Your post raised the issue of prestige , I was clarifying your view of the regional rankings.
Villanova has a school of Liberal Arts and on a stand alone basis I would guess that it would rank favorably with HC #32 in the Liberal Arts rankings of USNWR.
But Villanova is so much more , A top 10 undergraduate Business school, a highly regarded Engineering school , a terrific school of nursing.</p>

<p>Holy Cross is a wonderful school , but is now way superior to Villanova. </p>

<p>Villanova has done an internal analysis and would expect a National ranking between 30-45 if/when they are ranked in the category by USNWR.</p>

<p>The question is to compare Villanova and HC , not TCNJ or Providence.Villanova is vastly superior to Loyola , TCNJ & Providence.
Go to Common Data sets for true comparisons.</p>

<p>^Villanova is by far the most superior university on the regional north category by no doubt. I think I mentioned this on the holy cross thread, but a good indication of how intelligent the student body is is to look at the incoming students...in 2009-2010 nova had 9 merit scholars wheras HC had 0...Merit scholars represent less than 1 percent of high school seniors, that means Nova is attracting students in the top 99th percentile whereas holy cross is not.</p>

<p>If you look at the peer colleges that each are grouped by US News you can get an accurate feel of the caliber of the college:</p>

<ol>
<li>Bryn Mawr</li>
<li>Bucknell</li>
<li>Holy Cross</li>
<li>Kenyon</li>
<li>Sewanee</li>
<li><p>Richmond</p></li>
<li><p>Villanova</p></li>
<li><p>Providence</p></li>
<li><p>Loyola-Md</p></li>
<li><p>Bentley</p></li>
<li><p>College of NJ</p></li>
</ol>

<p>U.S. News & World Report 2010
Alumni Giving Rates </p>

<p>HOLY CROSS 52.5%
NOTRE DAME 44%<br>
GEORGETOWN 27%<br>
PROVIDENCE 25%<br>
*VILLANOVA 18% *</p>

<p>What do the giving rates really have to do with what school is better?...other than that nova grads hold onto their money.lol</p>

<p>I feel like the difference lies in the field of study you plan to pursue and the college experience you look for. Rankings wise I want to point out that schools like Fordham in NY is ranked about 50 for National Universities. I was wondering why Nova doesn't make the list if Fordham does (I was under the impression they were pretty comparable). </p>

<p>Holy Cross and Villanova are very different. I seriously considered going to Nova, but turned it down for HC for a variety of reasons. Academically they are pretty similar, but as a Bio major HC had the upper hand (but this would not have been the case if I wanted to study business). I liked the small liberal arts feel, didn't like the large Greek life at Nova, and the greater Boston area is much nicer (in my opinion) than the greater Philly area.</p>

<p>The argument could be made to support either school. I think the difference academically overall is very minimal.</p>

<p>I agree with you Lily that your area of focus in a field is what would make one choice better for you than the other...You raise an interesting point why Fordham is on the national list and Nova and HC arent. Most people would consider HC and Villanova to be much better universities than Fordham, which is typically compared to the Loyolas and Providence.
I, however, disagree about the location of Holy Cross...the greater boston area maybe better than the greater philly area, but the Main Line (villanova) is known for being a prestigious and fun area whereas Worcester is an old factory town.
I seriously considered Holy Cross but my brother, who attends, informed me of how dreary the location really is...the HC campus is beautiful, but off campus there is not much to do.</p>

<p>Well Holy Cross doesn't fall in the category of "National University" because it's a LAC. National Universities have graduate students and are usually much larger. HC makes the list for nationally ranked LACs. The ones that don't make the national ranking in their corresponding category (Villanova would be considered a university) are then ranked in comparision to the other schools around the area. So why Fordham is considered a National University and Villanova isn't is something to think about.</p>

<p>Location was totally personal. All of my family is in the Boston area and it (from my experience) was very easy getting from Worchester to Boston. Also Worchester wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be. As for Nova I actually didn't like the rich suburb feel. I felt like I was just surrounded by rich white people all the time; and Philly isn't Boston, I did not enjoy the time I spent in the city.</p>

<p>You guys are missing the SIMPLE point of clarification as to why Villanova is not ranked in the national ranking. It has nothing to do with "national recognition" or "make the national ranking in their corresponding category".</p>

<p>It has to do with USNWR category definitions. </p>

<p>"USNWR</p>

<p>National University Rankings Methodology</p>

<p>Schools in the National Universities category, such as University of Chicago and Stanford University, offer a full range of undergraduate majors, master's, and doctoral degrees."</p>

<p>Villanova is not a"National University" category by USNWR definition (see above).</p>

<p>Villanova has been a traditional undergraduate institution that is expanding it masters and doctorate programs and degrees conferred. It is ranked in the regional rankings because in the past it did not confer a high enough percentage of degrees in Masters or Doctoral programs.That is changing , in 2010 , Villanova conferred Bachelor's degrees 1917 & Master's degrees 767.</p>

<p>It is not ranked in the Liberal Arts category because it is not strictly a liberal arts school , as defined by USNWR Rankings Methodology "which emphasize undergraduate education and award at least half of their degrees in the liberal arts fields of study".</p>

<p>Villanova's Business , Engineering & Nursing school are slightly more than half (55% +/-) the undergraduate degrees.</p>

<p>It is interesting that Villanova's school of Liberal Arts is around the size of many schools in the Liberal Arts category and if Villanova School of Liberal Arts were ranked in the Liberal Arts category it would rank between #30 Bucknell and # 41 Franklin & Marshall. This can be verified by comparing the specific rankings data. </p>

<p>As I have stated previously , if/when Villanova is ranked in the National category , it will rank somewhere between 31 (Boston College) & 45 (UT Austin). </p>

<p>The rankings use strict metrics to define a score , thus ranking. </p>

<h1>31 BC has accept rate 31% , Freshman retention rate 95% & 6yr graduation rate 91%</h1>

<h1>45 UT Austin has accept rate 45% , Freshman retention rate 92% & 6yr graduation rate 81%.</h1>

<p>Villanova has accept rate 45% , Freshman retention rate 95% & 6yr graduation rate 90%.
HC accept rate 35% , Freshman retention rate 94% & 6yr graduation rate 91%.
Fordham accept rate 51% , Freshman retention rate 90% & 6yr graduation rate 79%.</p>

<p>There are other criteria used in the rankings such as student/faculty ratio , middle 50% sat scores,etc but the above numbers give you a starting point for comparisons across the "USNWR" categories. I would place Villanova & HC about even and Villanova ahead of Fordham even with these 3 schools in 3 different categories.</p>

<p>The fact that Fordham is categorized as a National University and Villanova is not, is all about Masters & Doctoral Degrees conferred and nothing else.</p>

<p>In the end who cares about rankings , go where you are comfortable.
But you need to understand the definition of the rankings categories if you want to compare schools across the categories.</p>

<p>Regarding:"didn't like the large Greek life at Nova"</p>

<p>23% of the student body (15%of male and 31% of Female students) are in Greek Life at Villanova and there is no Greek housing.</p>

<p>Villanova is not exactly "Animal House".</p>

<p>Brave Ulysses: Thank you for the clarification regarding rankings. </p>

<p>As for the Greek comment, I just didn't want any Greek life as a personal preference. I may have overestimated Nova's Greek life because when I did an overnight stay I was with a sorority girl and only really saw the school from that perspective.</p>

<p>Like I said before: both are good schools and you can't go wrong either way. I just strongly prefered one to the other and that may have had something to do with the people I met on my visits.</p>

<p>ulysses good post, I don't think I ever looked too far into the methodology of UNSWR rankings...Thanks for clarifying it.
Holy Cross is typically narrowed down into just liberal arts and doesn't branch out far from it, so that makes sense. </p>

<p>^Liley I am sure you made the right decision for yourself, but maybe you should have visited Nova one more time from a non-greek perspective...Like Ulysses says, greek life is not that active on campus.</p>

<p>I think the only way you can really understand a school is by going there. I knew I wanted to go to HC the moment I walked on campus; there was just something about it that I fell in love with. And I'm sure people feel the same way about Nova.</p>

<p>BTW the number of National Merit Scholars (2010 competition) at some of the Catholic schools mentioned are</p>

<p>Notre Dame 51
Fordham 34
Georgetown 28
Boston College 12
Villanova 9
Holy Cross 0
Providence 0
Loyola- Maryland 0
Fairfield 0</p>

<p>You can find this at National</a> Merit Scholarship Corporation - NMSP</p>

<p>I wonder why Fordham has more merit scholars than schools like Carnegie Mellon and Georgetown? I know gtown and CMU dont offer merit money, does fordham offer a good size check?</p>

<p>HC should try and do something to attract merit type students because 0 is somewhat embarrassing.</p>

<p>Unless you are an Ivy I think Merit Scholars comes down to how much money you throw at the students b/c they probably have a lot of options. And yes, Fordham does offer good money. I am not a merit scholar and still got a full ride from Fordham. </p>

<p>Nova: I think you are placing too much importance on PSAT?SAT scores. PSAT/SAT scores have been shown to not accuratly predict intelligence or how well someone will do in college. In my experience the PSAT didn't even predict how well I was going to do on the SAT (my SAT was over 400 points higher than PSAT and no, I didn't have any additional prep). There are quality students everywhere, whether or not they did well on standardized tests.</p>