<p>Based on stats that have been posted, it seems GPA and SAT are usually closely linked. But what about those whose GPA and SAT scores don’t seem to correlate, which combo is most common? Looking at middle 50% info for schools I get the impression that it is more common to have high GPA and “average” SAT than the reverse. For example, the SAT range for selective schools seems to be greater than the GPA range. Lots of discussions on the causes for a disconnect in GPA and test scores, but I’m interested in the frequency of the two possibilities.</p>
<p>Those statistics don’t tell you how frequent anything is among applicants. They only provide information about admitted students.</p>
<p>I would argue that in general, high GPA and comparatively low SAT is better than a high SAT and comparatively low GPA for admissions purposes, and that therefore more of the former are accepted.</p>
<p>Im guessing, but I would bet there are way more kids with higher GPAs and lower sat scores than the reverse.</p>
<p>"The last important observation is that despite what Ivy League admissions officers will admit if you ask them, most value high scores and decent grades much more than decent scores and high grades. There is something undeniably impressive about a student who scores over 750 on the CR, math, and writing portion of the SAT and who scores in the high 700s on 3 SAT IIs. </p>
<p>It used to surprise me that even the director of admissions at Dartmouth would make excuses for students with extremely high scores. I’m not talking about C students, but students who did modestly well in high school (top 15% or B-category grades) and had astoundingly high test scores. Often during committee deliberations, I would hear him say, “With those scores, I bet Caroline was just bored with her classes and her teachers. I bet she would take off if challenged by other brilliant people in an Ivy League classroom.” You would never hear the same argument for someone with a number-one rank and all low 600 scores. The comments would run more like this: “Despite the impressive rank and GPA, we can only assume that his high school is very weak or that Tom is a real grind who would study all day and continue to do here what he did in high school.”</p>
<p>-Michelle Hernandez, former Assistant Director of Admissions at Dartmouth</p>
<p>I was really surprised when I read that, because I’ve been commonly told on this site that high GPA/low SAT is exponentially better than low GPA/high SAT. </p>
<p>But anyway, I think that people with a low GPA/high SAT combo are much rarer than people with a high GPA/low SAT combo because there are far more schools out there that inflate grades rather than deflate them. For example, most schools in my area are not competitive at all, and I’m willing to bet that it’s pretty easy to get an A average in those schools. On the other hand, my HS is really competitive so it’s much harder to get an A. Since the SAT is standardized, a kid who gets an A in an easy school probably won’t do as well on the SAT as a kid who gets a B+ in a hard school, which results in more people who have high GPAs and low SATs (since there are more schools out there that inflate grades). </p>
<p>It’s just sad seeing Valedictorians or people with 4.0 GPAs who barely scrape a 1800 on the SAT. It really makes me jealous of kids who go to schools so easy that the act of going to class probably is enough to earn one an A.</p>
<p>^yup…I’m sure just going to class gives them an A…Stop being jealous and worry about yourself…</p>
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<p>Probably depends on the school.</p>
<p>But low SAT can be an easier problem to fix – one can take the ACT, or study test-taking skills and retake the SAT (or ACT), in order to try to get a better score. On the other hand, low GPA through junior year is not changeable for college admissions.</p>
<p>"I’ve been commonly told on this site that high GPA/low SAT is exponentially better than low GPA/high SAT. "</p>
<p>I’ve noticed the same thing on these threads, a zealous conviction that GPA is all that matters. I just wonder if there are so few “low” (B average) and very high SAT (greater than 2200) kids that admission statistics don’t reflect their outcomes. GPA appears to rule because a vast majority of high SAT kids also have high GPA, and SAT appears not to be as important because relatively few score higher than 2200. I don’t even want to get in to the discussion of “which is better” and the implications of the GPA/score ratio. I just wonder how the numbers are crunched in admissions decisions. Would be great of there were a “Low GPA/High SAT” thread, but few on CC seem to fall in to that category.</p>
<p>^Yeah I get the feeling that the statistics don’t reflect the real outcomes because people with higher GPAs are probably going to be better applicants overall. Same thing with SAT scores. For example, a kid with a 4.0 GPA will most likely have better SATs, ECs, recs, and essays than a kid with a 3.0 GPA.</p>
<p>But still, GPA is definitely more important overall in college admissions and it should be because it reflects work over a longer period of time. In the case of high GPA/low SAT vs low GPA/high SAT though, I agree with Michelle Hernandez.</p>
<p>Think about it this way, there are 20K plus high schools in the United States, that means there are 20k plus 4.0 GPAs for the vals and 3.99 for the sals. There are at least another 200k kids with a 3.75+ GPA. But last I checked, less than 1000 people get a 2350+ per SAT test date…so high GPA is much more common, but a high SAT is much more impressive.</p>
<p>According to the college board, about 18,000 college bound seniors in 2011 scored 1500 or higher on SAT CR+M. There are about 30,000 high schools in the U.S., so roughly 30,000 vals and another 30,000 sals. Some of the vals and sals took the ACT only. Since about as many people take the ACT as the SAT, there are probably roughly as many high-ACT scorers as 1500+ SAT CR+M scorers; but a fair number of those who score high on one test will also be among those scoring high on the other test.</p>
<p>Based on all that, I’d guess as a very rough estimate there might be 25,000 to 30,000 graduating seniors annually who score 1500+ on SAT CR+M and/or the equivalent on the ACT; as compared to roughly 60,000 who are val or sal of their HS class. (I know some schools don’t name a val or sal, but some other schools name multiple vals or sals, so it probably roughly cancels out). If you set a lower threshold for what counts as “high GPA”—e.g., top 10% of graduating class (a figure many colleges seem to care about, because it affects their U.S. News ranking) the number in the high-GPA pool swells to about 300,000 (= 10% of the approximately 3 million graduating HS seniors).</p>
<p>Of course, if you set a lower threshold for what counts as a “high” test score, the number of high test scores would swell as well, Just not as much. Let’s stipulate that a SAT CR+M below 1400 is probably not going to get you into the most selective colleges and universities. But a 1400+ CR+M represents the top 4% of SAT-takers, or roughly 60,000 students (= maybe 90,000 if you add ACT-only high scorers).</p>
<p>Bottom line, I think high GPAs are more common than high test scores. But for the most selective schools it’s best to have both.</p>
<p>I think it is very common on CC to see kids with a very high gpa but a surprisingly low SAT score.</p>
<p>I am always amazed when I see some kid who says he is #3 in his high school class, but only has a 1700 SAT. To me, this indeed shows that the high school has a lot of grade inflation.</p>
<p>I think that a “true” valecdictorian should be able to score high on the SAT.</p>
<p>Thanks to all for the interesting analyses, which confirm my impression from reading the various stats that get posted. Someone once posted a formula that was purported to be used by Ivies to create an admission eligibility score. I believe the context was in regard to athlete admissions, but with more than 30,000 applicants at top schools it is hard to believe they don’t all use some sort of similar formula initially. If I recall, the score gave almost equal weight to GPA, SAT/ACT and SAT subject tests. Of course the Ivies easily fill with top GPA/SAT/ACT kids, but moving down the ladder to schools with 30-40% acceptance rates, I wonder if high standardized test scores can provide more of boost than high GPA.</p>
<p>Yeah I have an A- GPA and I haven’t taken the SATs yet but I expect to got 2100+ so I kind if feel like I may fit the high sat, low gpa category…doesn’t look too good, does it? :/</p>
<p>I think I fit into the “high SAT, low GPA category”. My SAT score was 2300 (1500 CR + M) but my unweighted GPA was only around 3.6 (4.6 weighted). I actually do believe that a high SAT score looks way more impressive to colleges than a high GPA, and I’m glad. It’s giving those of us who don’t study until 3 AM a fair chance. Sure, there’s something to be said for a highly motivated and driven student, who is guaranteed to succeed in any class. But there’s also something appealing about the intelligent, well-rounded student who maintains an A- average fairly easily, and without having to give up their hobbies and social life. That student is the one who will have time to be creative and innovative. </p>
<p>Just my opinion. Perhaps I’m now overconfident because I got into my dream school (see username) without having their average 3.75 UW GPA. I also was not in the top 10% of my class (I was top 20%) as are 70% of Carolina’s students.</p>
<p>Obviously more common to see high GPA with low test scores. Just think, which is more common, a 2400 or a 4.0? Obviously, the latter. Granted, depending on what you define “high” as for GPA and test scores, the numbers will fluctuate, but generally speaking, test scores max out “higher” than GPA does.</p>
<p>“I am always amazed when I see some kid who says he is #3 in his high school class, but only has a 1700 SAT. To me, this indeed shows that the high school has a lot of grade inflation.”</p>
<p>I totally agree. I especially hate it when people always think that low SAT scores are the result of being a “bad test taker.” If you can get a 4.0 in school, scoring well on TESTS, then there’s no excuse for not doing well on the SAT too unless you took easy classes or your school’s really easy. I doubt someone with real test anxiety would be able to do well in school, where there are tons of tests. Plus, the material taught in school’s usually far more advanced than the stuff that appears on the SAT.</p>
<p>SAT tests skills not learned in school, so having a high GPA doesn’t mean you’ll have a high SAT score.</p>
<p>For example, most of the (hard) vocab in the reading section isn’t taught in school, so you have to go out of your way to study for it.</p>
<p>Also, very few schools these days even teach grammar, so the whole writing section is new to a lot of people.</p>
<p>Math is straightforward and a good student should be prepared for this section.</p>
<p>That said, the SAT can be gamed, but it is quite possible to go to a rigorous school, get a high GPA, but still score low on the SAT (<2300)</p>
<p>As time goes on high SAT scores will become more and more impressive as the curve becomes harsher and high GPAs will become less impressive as more schools inflate their grades.</p>
<p>“That said, the SAT can be gamed, but it is quite possible to go to a rigorous school, get a high GPA, but still score low on the SAT (<2300)”</p>
<p>Anything below 2300 is considered “low?” You must have some pretty high standards :D</p>
<p>I have a friend who’s one of the smartest people in my class–top 10, 4.3, tons of APs, but she scored a 1750 on the SAT (her highest after 3 attempts). I think some people just get too nervous and stressed out about standardized tests like she did</p>