Just want to comment because you have Barnard on your list – as the parent of a Barnard alum, I viewed Barnard as a very intense, competitive environment. Great for my very ambitious, confident, proactive, and persistent daughter who rarely accepts “no” for an answer – definitely a good fit for a college that describes its students as “intrepid and ambitious.”
But you might want to delve deeper and reconsider its spot on your list, especially as the admit rate has dipped below 15%. I’d see it as a tough place for the reserved and leadership-averse to get admitted – if you check admitted student threads on CC you’ll see that most of the admitted students have profiles strong on leadership qualities or initiative… And if admitted, it could be an environment that would take a reserved student far outside her comfort zone, especially because of the NYC location & interconnectedness with Columbia.
A women’s college can be tremendously empowering… but I think you might want to consider boosting Bryn Mawr and Mount Holyoke closer to the top of your list. And reconsider both Barnard and Wellesley – given that Wellesley also has a reputation for attracting highly ambitious and competitive women.
@calmom It’s really only the love in my heart for women’s colleges and the ostensibly mechanical nature of my list-mongering that has kept both Barnard and Wellesley on the list, because I agree with you 100%. For that matter, of the 3 Claremont Colleges, I can’t imagine her applying to Pomona or Pitzer when she’d rather go to Scripps and Scripps is much more likely to want her. I’d suggest that she at least look at them in conjunction with a Scripps visit, but I don’t think they’re contenders.
@porcupine98 I think of Smith as more science-y than leader-y. It might run too predominantly left for her, or she might accept a place on the conservative side of a broad range of views there, just as she’s accepted a place on the liberal side of a broad range here. Smith is my not-particularly-secret favorite, although the more I refine things based on DD’s input, the more I think that’s because Smith is where I’d go if I had it to do over again (and I’d have been fine at both Barnard and Wellesley).
Where is she on the outdoorsy continuum? Whitman jumps out at me as a terrific place for an intellectual Type B kid. And probably more in your d’s political middle ground than most. I think most of the Pacific Northwest colleges have a strong outdoorsy bent, though. Also Walla Walla would be a project to get to and from, from where you are.
Speaking of not-too-hard-to-get-to… I know you’re not looking to add to the list, but have you considered and ruled out Rhodes? I perceive it as another very attractive intellectual-but-not-Type-A school. A bit off my d’s geographic radar, but similar distance for you to what Scripps is for us.
Adjusting for ED, the RD and ED rates for 2016-2017 are:
Bowdoin College 0.13 / 0.27 (10.3% overall for 2017-2018 vs 15%)
Williams College 0.16 / 0.40 (12.2% overall for 2017-2018 vs 18%)
Haverford College 0.19 / 0.51 (18.7% overall for 2017-2018 vs 21%)
Grinnell College 0.19 / 0.47
Scripps College 0.28 / 0.52 (24.1% overall for 2017-2018 vs 30%)
University of Tulsa 0.32 / EA only
Smith College 0.35 / 0.57
Macalester College 0.36 / 0.53
Bryn Mawr College 0.39 / 0.52
Occidental College 0.46 / 0.47
Mount Holyoke College 0.52 / 0.55
Lawrence University 0.66 / [EA only]
Mills College 0.84 / [EA only]
@aquapt She likes being outdoors, but isn’t outdoorsy, if that makes sense. Not the kid to go skiing or mountain biking, but a maintained trail always makes for a pleasant walk.
Both Whitman and Rhodes are on the “if we need to cast a more expansive net” list. I know someone whose Hendrix kid did an away year at Rhodes, and got enormous merit money from both schools - I don’t know whether they were looking more for fit or more for money, though. Whitman is 6.5 hours from the time the airplane would take off here until she’d arrive at the college, which is on the longer side - but the short end is Lawrence at 4 hours, so the spread isn’t bad.
I know you want to narrow not add, but your list looks similar to what my kid was considering last year, so…
If you’re considering Carleton and Mac, then it makes sense to take a look at St Olaf as a match. Good merit opportunities there.
If you’re considering Mac and Grinnell, I would put Oberlin in the mix as well. Decent merit available there as well and relatively easy access from Cleveland airport.
I loved Mac when we visited. It’s easy to get to from the airport and lots of opportunities for nice walks, good shopping and restaurants close by and the Mississippi is a half an hour’s stroll away.
Oberlin is on the longer list; it was my second choice way back when.
I initially wrote, “You know, schools with more than a nominal religious affiliation have always been a dealbreaker, but I think if we visit Carleton, it’s worth a stop at St Olaf. (And once you go to Macalester, it’s hard to justify not going to Northfield.)” And then I looked at the St Olaf gen ed requirements, and the classes offered that met the biblical / theological requirements, and they’re definitely a dealbreaker. Might work fine for some kids of any religion or no religion, not for mine.
I have to say, I am a spreadsheet freak myself, and I love your list, and I am 100% stealing it for my kid when the time comes. It’s (way) early days yet (I’m a holdover from kid #1), so I don’t know yet what she’ll be seeking (she might want something larger), but I would be delighted to see her at any one of these schools. Thank you! Will be following with interest…
Spreadsheet says DD can visit 11 schools, while classes are in session, between now and the end of her junior year, without missing any school and while retaining some school break days. Plus some weekend self-tours of nearby schools I think she’s less likely to prefer (Haverford with Bryn Mawr, Pomona and Pitzer with Scripps, Carleton with Macalester.) Two of the visits manage to land on scheduled open houses, even.
All hail the spreadsheet. May it find us travel arrangements just as good.
There is apparently only so much the spreadsheet can do. Five points to every school located conveniently close to both airports and overnight accommodation.
I am not knocking the spreadsheet for college tours. But it does seem like we are all turning this fun exciting time into a business or the batan death march.
It’s long gone. But does anyone miss getting the applications out of the school booklet and filling out for three or four that seemed nice. And telling your parents when you got into one over dinner. We all miraculously survived
Not knocking your involvement and organization. We just did the same thing with d this year. But it all seems so much less fun and innocent as I went through the process
I’m having fun! More with the spreadsheet than with the thought of all that travel.
DD claims to be enjoying it, and she’s not usually one to humor her parents. She says the only thing she wishes she had was a friend to share the process with; all hers have already picked out their dream schools and are resolute to consider no others. They are quite the random assortment of dreams, from “if I don’t get into Julliard, I’ll just stay home and do nothing,” to a small teaching college in a neighboring state, to in-state schools of varying selectivity and cost. Very few people from her school go out of state, and when they do, it’s for CHYMPS.
Spouse checked in with me just the other day to confirm that I’m having fun and that she was just as glad to be relatively uninvolved until time to write checks and drop off.
If I’d had a spreadsheet and the internet as a teenager, rather than having to rely on handwritten notes and paper guidebooks, that would have been awesome. I will say I’m kind of nostalgic for getting one paper application form and filling it out in your neatest handwriting, though, even if it was uphill both ways in the snow.
Driving, now, that’s something I dislike. The thing I had as a kid that DD is missing out on is a parent with unlimited time, willing to drive all over the country visiting random (and in retrospect mostly unsuitable) colleges.
Guidebooks. Thanks for that. I couldn’t for the life of me come up with the term.
And picking a school that wasn’t a good fit is definitely suboptimal !
Perhaps from the intial check to the college advisor four years ago. To the seemingly endless tours. The joy of victory and those sad nights of defeat over the last few months. And the May 1 deadline bringing my odyssey to an end. Good grief. Dad is a bit tired out at this point. Now the fun of purchasing the equivalent of a small home each year for the next four years.
Actually, I only applied to two colleges back in 1969… and I distinctly remember typing up my essay.
Of course for me, “neatest handwriting” is an oxymoron. Takes me forever to just address an envelope by hand.
Oh, I’d say conveniently close to airports is easily worth 50 points. Much, much easier down the line when the kid is flying back & forth to the college on their own. And extra points for a hub airport vs. regional airport. (And yes, that cuts down the potential college list considerably … but definitely something to at least factor in. Plus plenty of excellent choices even with that criteria)
I hate arriving late to a party or wedding reception. Some of this will already have been said, but here are some cool things about some of these schools:
Lawrence is half an hour from Lambeau Field, the shrine of football, and the team that plays there, the 13-time NFL champion Green Bay Packers. And my grandparents are about six minutes from the school, and they are a minute or two from the Fox River Mall.
Smith and Mt Holyoke are part of the Five Colleges, so she could take classes at the other as well as Amherst, UMass, and Hampshire. Smith is more "SJW activist" than Holyoke.
Occidental (AKA Oxy) is LA's best LAC. (the Claremonts are suburban -- removed)
DU (U of Denver) has D1 hockey and la crosse and is about 45 minutes from the best -- you're one of 1-5 people on the mountain -- hike to 11700 feet known to man (or, at least, to me): Chief Mountain. The area offers a wealth of hiking and gorgeous views.
Knox is maybe an hour from me, not far from the Mississippi. Iowans are nicer than FIBs, but western FIBs are nicer than the people from the city (and its environs) who caused my northern Wisconsin tourist-area (copious lakes and trees) brethren to come up with the "FIB" term. The I stands for Illinois and the B stands for the traditional term for one born out of wedlock. And the F stands for a vile word.
Mac is somewhat of a rarity among LACs: urban.
Bryn Mawr has a Welsh name, like my ancestor Llywyllyn Fawr (Llewelyn ap Iorwerth) and is (more importantly) in the Quaker Consortium with UPenn, Swarthmore, and Haverford. It's like the Five Colleges (minus one), but with an urban Ivy Leaguer in it. The Social Ivy at that. Haverford and Bryn Mawr are a lovely mile or so apart and many students at both schools take advantage of the cross-reg. It's a bit less logistically and administratively easy to take classes at Penn and Swat, but it can be done.
Obviously some of that was jammed up a bit. But hopefully it was fun and otherwise acceptable.
On a completely serious note, and to answer your question, Case Western, American, and Tulsa are, as universities, estranged in priorities/resources/advantages (and dis-) from the rest of them, which are LACs.
The LACs themselves all differ from one another on multiple fronts, but academically, and in terms of focus, they have more in common with one another than they do with the U’s.
@allyphoe : this is a matter I’ve looked into regularly but the classes seemed very open - “end of the world and dystopias” involved the Apocalypse and hunger games, there was one about the multiple ways to read the Bible teoughiut the years in the African American community, something that seemed directed to Jewish students with a focus on Tanach… And the other requirements for could be fulfilled with cyberethics or business ethics or Philosophy or or history or psychology classes. This may be too much for your daughter but it’s more “how faith may impact people’s life, various cultures, history, and ways of thinking”, rather than “what you should/must believe”, doctrine, and catechism.
It may make this school “not like the others”.
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