@MYOS1634
Here’s what St Olaf’s curriculum committee requires classes contain, in order to meet their requirements:
BTS-T: “A course on Christian theology that acquaints students with ongoing efforts to understand the essential content of Christian belief in a critical and coherent manner, and that engages students in theological reflection. […] While these courses may also consider other traditions or disciplines in relation to theology, Christian theology must be the principal focus. Theology is understood as “critical and normative reflection.” Theology is critical in that Christian discourse about God and Christ claims to be meaningful and true. Hence these courses must explore criteria of meaning and truth, and address such questions as, How, if at all, are Christian teachings about God and Christ meaningful? Theology is normative in that it intends to shape Christian discourse about God and Christ. Hence these courses must address such questions as, What kinds of claims about God and Christ are consistent with Christian teachings?”
BTS-B: “A course that introduces first-year students to dialogue between biblical traditions and the cultures and communities related to them. Students study major biblical texts and their interaction with theology, religious practice, ethics and social values, while considering methods and fields in the study of religion in a liberal arts setting. […] The principal focus of these courses must be the content of the Bible, including its central narratives and other principal literary types, and the major theological views it presents.”
EIN: “An upper level course that analyzes ethical issues from a variety of perspectives that provide norms of justice and well-being and guide moral reasoning. The normative frameworks employed in the course will include one or more perspectives from the Christian theological tradition. […] The normative perspectives employed in the course must be drawn from a combination of the Christian theological tradition and other traditions, or from the Christian theological tradition alone.”
That might be fine for some kids; not mine. We live in a part of the country where a large percentage of opportunities, both academic and otherwise, come along with a Christian focus, and I have had this discussion with her many, many times.
Lol, I don’t see many sunshine schools being added.
Know that sweet little trip to UTulsa? That’swhat I’d do more of, right now/soon: local, easy. The idea is to learn more of what does attract her. This can also build the confidence about sorts of environments, better than just pondering at
home, what she thinks now. Early on, we were looking at all sorts of close schools, only 1 of which made her serious final list. (But we’re in New England, where lots are close.)
About travel times: it’s not just hours in transit, nor scheduled trips back and forth. Imo, it’s how complicated. For us, to get to Carleton (DH was pulling for that one) would be a flight to Chicago, transfer to Mnpls, bus to town, taxi to campus. (It may have changed, but that’s what the travelling AO told us.) Now imagine there’s a reason you need to get to her, fast.
If you do visit MHC and etc, i think it’s worth a look at Clark (and you may find yourself traveling via Providence, not Boston.) Nice kids. Empowered, but laid back, imo. Problem is, though many in the area like Worcester for what we know is there, many visitors are put off by the parts around the college.
Mills has apparently been having financial troubles. Could effect classes, buildings, faculty, etc. And Oberlin has reportedly been having increased anti-semitic issues. If these are of concern.
@lookingforward There are exactly zero circumstances in which we’d need to get to her fast. Dead? Not an emergency. Hospitalized? The hospital will take fine care of her until we can arrive. Mental health crisis? Not a situation which arose overnight; another couple days won’t matter - and if it would, the hospital would take fine care of her until we can arrive. Jail? Attorney. Homesick? Parents who can arrive at the drop of a hat are a negative. Traumatic experience? Get up and move forward.
This is another situation where different kids need different things. We have intentionally put DD in situations where she has no choice but to suck it up, for increasing periods of time, so she would be ready to leave home for college.
@jym626 Mills is the school on the list that is the most concerning to me in terms of financial stability, but it was in the top 2/3 of the starting list of 180, which was my cut point for “good enough.”
Understood, @allyphoe - but if you are looking for reasons to cut the list, worry about resources, facilities, classes, faculty, etc would be a concern for me.
It sounds very different from the actual classes taught though. The classes may not be your daughter’s cup of tea but it seems very far from what the official indicate.
Here’s a link to the latest document I’d checked… https://wp.stolaf.edu/registrar/files/2017/06/REL-121-Section-Descriptions-2017-18.pdf
Ultimately it doesn’t matter much because it’s not necessary to add this particular university to the list, but it would be too bad if it might be a good fit and she were pushed away due to the wrong reason.
Let me be more explicit: my child would not consider attending a program that would put those requirements in writing, regardless of how strictly they were adhered to.
There are many many fine schools which might be a good fit, if not for some fatal flaw. It’s not too bad to eliminate them for that flaw; it’s what takes the list from thousands down to tens.
We visited for the spring open house, a full day of organized activities, then stayed another day to get a less scripted view.
Kid loved the sample class. Rather than sending the horde of visitors into random classes, they broke them up into small groups and did a prospect-only version of their Freshman Studies class, which all students take in their first two trimesters. They read and discussed a poem from Native Guard by Natasha Trethewey, one of the books included in this year's course. Kid hates poetry as taught in her high school, and loved the class discussion here.
She loved the professors. At lunch you got to sit with the professor who taught the subject of your choice. She initially chose psychology, but when that professor and another student who had some psych background started talking about things she didn't understand, she jumped to the physics table, where she and another kid with similar physics backgrounds were enthralled by the prof's explanation of how he's using physics to get better images of cell division, complete with a little model built out of cutlery and condiments. Kid left the lunch as a prospective physics major!
Note that if she went to my Ivy alma mater, or either of our state flagships, I do not think there is any chance she would major in anything science related. I looked at the Lawrence intro CS syllabus, and she would be 100% fine there if that was the route she wanted to take. Academically, I think this would be an excellent school for the kid she is right now: one who wants to learn about everything but isn't willing to fight for anything.
She loved the campus, which is small (88 acres) and was green and blooming in mid-May.
She felt that the kids were friendlier and happier than the kids at University of Tulsa.
It is really easy to get to. Six miles straight down College from airport to school.
Based on published data, I would bet four years of college COA that she will be admitted and receive maximum merit money (half tuition), making putting it at the less expensive end of the narrow range of likely net prices.
Locals who heard that she was considering Lawrence all talked about how much the community likes the university - they go to LU sporting events, to musical performance and art exhibitions, to eat on campus. The school likewise likes its city; rather than offering many organized classes at the wellness center, they give students membership at the Y, which already had a wide range of classes. Health services is pretty pared down, because they have good relationships with the two hospitals in town, each a mile away. Campus security isn't police-like, because they work with the city police for anything that needs policing. The main road through town, in front of the campus, was full of families playing Pokemon Go down wide sidewalks Saturday afternoon. Cars seemed unfrustrated by having to constantly stop for pedestrians; pedestrians used crosswalks.
The food was excellent, both at the organized activities and in the cafeteria and cafe on Saturday.
We had amazing ramen (and spouse a really yummy local beer) at one of the probably thirty restaurants in the two-thirds of a mile between the hotel and the school. Other options included burgers, pizza, Thai, Mexican, Chinese, Afghani, and a million sports bars and coffee shops.
+/- One of the school’s selling points is that they are very nurturing / hand-holding. I went to one of the wellness sessions, and the person leading it basically said that if someone wanted something, odds were that it could be accomplished. They don’t have a recreational swim group, but there might be master’s swim at the Y - oh, but one of the personal trainers was on the swim team, so our kid could just work with her one-on-one. Yes, one of the things that helps for the long dark winter is just getting used to it, but they also have five MindSpa rooms on campus, which you can book by the half hour or hour, which have broad-spectrum SAD lights, nature views, and programmable massage chairs or bean bag chairs. The dean of the conservatory talked about a student who came to him with a plan for a $30k senior project - and found $18k of funding and produced something so impressive it was released commercially a year later. I suspect our kid could have gotten a spot in the physics prof’s research lab just by expressing an interest.
Standard course load is 3 classes per trimester, so taking a new foreign language, for instance, would use up an enormous percentage of your classes. They strongly discourage overload, and unless you're taking music classes, four scheduled classes is the effective upper limit permitted, even with special permission. OTOH, you can work with professors for as much or as little credit as you want, even no credit or 1/6th of a class.
The open house kids were the whitest, clingiest, kids with the helicopteriest parents ever. OMG. Our state is pretty white. Open House was way more white. Friday night on College Ave was incredibly white. The plan had been that our kid would take one tour and we would go with a different guide, but there were literally no other kids not glued to a parent, so she asked us to come with her group (and then didn't stand with us). I think we were the only parents separated from our kid at lunch; she said the parent of the other kid at her table asked a lot of questions about how Lawrence would get her kid into med school. The parent session run simultaneously with the kids' sample class was obviously intended to keep parents from sitting in on the class, or pressing their noses to the window of the class. All of their questions could be accurately paraphrased as, "you will handhold my kid through every hardship, both real and perceived, right?"
Spouse and I were able to spend some one-on-one time with an admin of color, who gave us insight into some unsettling race and gender issues. Campus is fine, town is fine, the bars along College attract people from the surrounding area who are sometimes spoiling for a fight with anyone who's visibly different. Lawrence is the most white (~67%) school on the current visit list. Our kid, who had previously expressed no particular interest in diversity, has much more interest in that now.
Both campus and town looked much more diverse Saturday afternoon. The trolley tour took us through some residential neighborhoods adjacent to campus, where we saw lots of people of color. College on a Saturday afternoon had far more people of color than it did on a Friday night.
+/- There are apparently no transients in Appleton, which felt odd to me, who is used to seeing them anywhere big enough to feel like a city. So odd that I had to look it up, and there are apparently only ~25 unsheltered homeless people in the area.
Kid was bothered by how prevalent smoking and drinking seemed to be; I think it was pretty typical for walking through an area with a lot of bars on a Friday night.
Kid liked it well enough that she came home with a Lawrence hoodie, in addition to the T-shirt they gave her. Current ranking:
Welcome to Wisconsin!
A few thoughts. People drink here. A lot. Of the various Wisconsin schools, I think drinking at Lawrence is on the low end, but it is still very embedded in culture.
People are also very white here. Sure, not everyone is white, but it is by far the dominant culture in most of the state.
It is really tough to be homeless when it is below zero for months at a time; people get out if they can at all.
But if you liked most things about Lawrence, i wonder if you’ve considered Beloit? Seems it might also be a fit.
@Booajo Beloit has about half as many students of my kid’s ethnicity as Lawrence has, and Lawrence probably didn’t have enough.
Drinking is a particular sore spot because my kid is young - she won’t be 21 until a few weeks one way or the other of college graduation. So Lawrence’s on campus bar, “where seniors can drink with their professors” was not exactly a selling point. I was glad to be able to tell her that they had regular dry nights that she’d be able to attend.
That said, it was really nice that we could sit at the bar for dinner, even with an underage kid!
Kid got her ACT score this morning: a really unbalanced 31. For non-college purposes, she needed an official ACT score >24 before August, but the only timing that worked precluded any prep other than working through a sample test one section at a time. She says she plans to retake when she has time to prep, aiming for a 33 or 34.
That’s not a bad baseline! And the good news is, an unbalanced score is easier to improve, because there’s lots of room to do better on the weaker part(s) and you know exactly what to work on. (Also, I had one kid whose ACT and SAT were unbalanced in opposite directions, so honestly, who knows with these tests sometimes…)
