Hi, I’m a junior in high school and I’ve been wondering what schools I should be looking at for my stats. My desired major is somewhere in the engineering field. I’m a Hispanic male, upper midclass, from a ruralish area in Pennsylvania. My UW GPA is 94-95 on an 100 scale (3.79) and SAT is 1480, as for class rank I sit around top 15%, I have taken 3 AP courses (all junior, school didn’t offer AP 9th/10th), and planning to take 5 more senior year, besides AP, all classes have been honors. My extracurriculars are pretty average and nothing too special. I prefer schools OOS and my budget is ~$65k/yr and I’m seriously wondering what schools I should be considering as a reach or target. My top choice is Northwestern as I would be legacy there. Please let me know what I should be looking for and advise me some colleges, thanks.
Suggest you provide more details
Geographic preferences?
What size school? Small medium large? And what do you consider small?
What setting? urban, rural, suburban, college town?
Are you willing to take loans?
Any preferences on public vs private?
Etc
Other than Northwestern is where a parent went, what appeals to you about it?
Syracuse, to me, is similar in many ways and would be a likely for you but both would be out of budget unless you take loans (or at SU, get merit).
But what do you seek in a school?
You want to go OOS but it’s a big state and has great schools - Pitt might fit you.
Tell us more - and fill out the Northwestern Net Price Calculator - or rather have your parents do so. What does it show for cost?
You can go to fantastic schools for as low as $20K a year with your stats and likely get a really strong outcome.
With a $65K/year budget and strong stats, you should have lots of good options, although super-elites become even more reachy without a top-10% class rank. Early Decision plus legacy might make Northwestern possible… but the question is, are you eligible for some need-based aid there? Because their “sticker price” is much more than $65K/year - it’s almost $95K/year. If financial aid wouldn’t bridge that gap, then the question of whether you could get in becomes moot.
However, there are plenty of great schools that you could get into and afford. Obviously the PA publics are a great place to start - Penn State, Pitt, and Temple all have strong engineering programs. Outside of PA, there are so many possibilities that it would help to have more info to narrow down with, as per the questions already posed above… plus, do you know what kind(s) of engineering you’re interested in?
Agree with @BoroDad. It would be almost impossible to help you when you haven’t gave us much information about your preferences, desires, and possibly future goals.
Northwestern appeals to me because family (specifically siblings) lives close by within Chicago so it would be convenient for that aspect. Other than that, I also heard Northwestern’s engineering is pretty good. For school preferences I prefer medium/large, urban area, I do not prefer if it is private or public, and I am willing to take some loans. I’m just looking for resourceful colleges with decent academic qualities. Northwestern shows as $85K which yes I realize now that is a bit of an overshot.
I am mostly interested in Electrical Engineering, I haven’t explored too much within specific majors yet this one seems the most appealing to me. I am not too sure of good engineering colleges. For school preferences I prefer medium/large, urban area, I do not prefer if it is private or public, and I am willing to take some loans. I’m just looking for resourceful colleges with decent academic qualities. The lower the price is obviously a plus but not to the point where experience and academics get sacrificed.
I know you say you don’t want to stay in PA, but Pitt would be a terrific choice for you.
Check SUNY Buffalo @aunt_bea can provide details. It sounds like it might tick off many of your boxes.
Some Med/Large, Eng, In or near cities
Pitt
Drexel
Northeastern
Case Western
Univ of Maryland
Univ of Rochester
RIT
WPI
Rutgers Univ
Ohio State
If you’re interested in engineering and like the Chicago area, you may want to consider Illinois Institute of Technology which is mid-sized. If you’re particularly keen on heading to that area, you could also consider Northern Illinois which is a residential campus with about 11k undergrads that’s not too far from Chicago…and there’s no premium for out-of-state students, so tuition, room & board end up around $25k/year.
Below are some other schools that you may want to check out, sorted by my guesses as to what your chances might be. Additionally, I would take a good luck at both Pitt and Temple, as they seem to have a lot of what you’re looking for, with the benefit of in-state pricing.
Extremely Likely (80-99+%)
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Manhattan College (NY)
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Marquette (WI) – in Milwaukee just a couple of hours from Chicago
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Michigan State
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Northern Illinois
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Saint Louis U. (MO)
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U. of Houston (TX)
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U. of Louisville (KY): Modeled on Cal Poly with “learn by doing” as its engineering motto
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U. of St. Thomas (MN) in St. Paul
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U. of Texas – Dallas
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Wentworth (MA) in Boston
Likely (60-79%)
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Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago
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Rochester Institute of Technology (NY)
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U. of Minnesota – Twin Cities
Toss-Up (40-59%)
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George Washington (D.C.)
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Ohio State
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Stevens Institute of Technology (NJ)
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U. of Wisconsin - Madison
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Worcester Polytechnic (MA)
Lower Probability (20-39%)
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Case Western (OH)
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U. of Miami (FL)
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U. of Rochester (NY)
Low Probability (less than 20%)
- Rice (TX)
I know we are all saying this but Pitt should pretty obviously be on your list. Apply really early, get a nice early answer.
After that, I think we need some clarity on costs. Market rate for privates (at least the sorts of privates people would typically see as competitive with Pitt) is circa $90K these days. If you check some NPCs and they not coming in on budget, you are going to need to chase merit to get privates in range. And that can totally work, but it will affect which private colleges make sense for you.
On the plus side, outside of California and a few others at least, many more out-of-state publics will still be within budget even at full cost–for now. You might need to be careful with four-year costs if they don’t guarantee a cost. The issue to me, though, is which are really going to count as competitive with Pitt given its strong fit and in-state costs?
But I agree Ohio State seems like a natural fit. Minnesota is in the Twin Cities. NC State is in Raleigh. Those are the ones I can think of that combine at least possibly being seen as “better” for engineering than Pitt, in an urban location, with (to my knowledge) an OOS cost still comfortably within budget.
Many schools are excellent for engineering. One thing with great stats - they can buy you access to great schools.
410 EE schools are ABET accredited in the US. That’s the minimum standard to hit.
Many jobs say - we want ABET accreditation.
With your stats and desires, you can go for as little as $20K a year to excellent UAH (with automerit) to - and I know others were mentioned but - these should all make budget or have the potential to make. And all would be fine colleges - you won’t see anything get sacrificed - ABET requires a certain standard to be met. But these all are Medium / Large and urban or urbanish type areas.
University of Alabama at Birmingham
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Arizona State University
The University of Arizona
University of Arkansas
San Diego State University
Colorado School of Mines
Colorado State University
University of Denver
University of Miami
Georgia Institute of Technology
University of Kentucky
University of Louisville
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Western Michigan University
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities
University of Nevada - Las Vegas
University of Nevada, Reno
University at Buffalo, The State University of New York
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Rochester Institute of Technology
University of Rochester
Syracuse University
North Carolina State University at Raleigh
Case Western Reserve University
University of Cincinnati
The Ohio State University
University of Pittsburgh
Temple University
University of South Carolina
University of Tennessee at Chattanooga
University of Tennessee Knoxville
Tennessee State University
Vanderbilt University
Southern Methodist University
The University of Utah
University of Washington
University of Wisconsin - Madison
Thanks, are there any distinct contrast to all of these colleges that I should consider when filtering options out? How should I determine if something is a reach or a target for me? How many reaches & targets should I be looking to apply to? How can I swiftly go about checking these colleges and narrowing my choices and determining how one is different from each other aside from location/population etc.? Thank you.
Different things can impact your decision - whether region, size, schedule (trimester, semester), cost, etc.
To determine suitability, etc. you might look at stats and see how you match up.
Those I gave you include smaller cities, bigger cities, etc.
You can research these (and more) - and figure out - what do you want. The best way, of course, is to go see schools - pick a few nearby - and see what you feel after a tour, when you’re walking through campus and talking with kids - do you belong?
Pitt, for example, is much smaller, than Ohio State.
UAH is even smaller (10K) and more suburban/small city - but still in a city, etc.
Some schools might be 20-30K and others may be $60K, etc.
Do you want sports? Greek life, etc?
There’s many different criteria you can use to help narrow.
FYI, RPI would probably give you merit that would bring your cost down close to that of your in-state flagship (for you, Penn State), so maybe to 40K/yr. It is a 2nd tier engineering school, only a step below places like MIT.
Look carefully at social balance at stand alone engineering schools, since they tend to have more men than women, and of course fewer, if any, liberal arts major students.
Our HS uses these definitions, and I think they work pretty well:
The trick though is you need to make sure you are looking at statistics for admission to Engineering as an OOS student.
There is no necessary formula. That link recommends 3-5 Targets and at least 2 Reaches, but you don’t necessarily need that many if you have a really strong Likely.
For example, Pitt is going to be about $42K for Engineering in-state. Assuming you agreed that would be a solid option for you, you only need to consider options you would consider better than that. And it might be a short list. Indeed, some people we know concluded Pitt was the best option for them, and they got admitted early to Pitt and were done–not a bad result if you can pull it off!
But if you can figure out what sorts of offers you would actually prefer to Pitt (or whatever you choose as your Likelies), you can then decide how many to apply to.
Have you considered University of New Mexico or University of Delaware.
You should apply to both Pitt and Penn State (at PSU-UP you have Engineering majors with subdivisions- concentrations- in COE, EMS, &AG so dig into all 3s offerings. EMS tends to have smaller classes but COE offers more majors.) Both would be likely.
Appy to Honors at both (Schreyer essay topics are published in July.)
Send your apps in early August.
Then you can focus on other universities on your list - SUNY Buffalo, NCSU, URochester, Rice…
In seeing your questions, it brings us back to your post where you tried to clarify what you’re looking for:
So right now we have medium/large schools in urban areas with a nudge for the Chicago area because you have siblings nearby. Most ABET-accredited colleges are going to have decent academic qualities and the resources you need to study engineering. As you can see from the lists that @tsbna44 and I shared, that still comes out to a lot of schools.
What you need to do is really reflect on what you want your college experience to be like:
- What size classes do you prefer?
- How many classes do you like taking at a time?
- What kind of people do you hope to be able to find on campus? What do you want the vibe to be like?
- How do you feel about Greek life (fraternities/sororities)?
- How do you feel about big enthusiasm for intercollegiate sports?
- Are there particular interests/activities you want to pursue while in college?
- Are there area(s) of the country you might be leaning towards living in after you graduate from college?
- Would the political or religious climate/vibe on campus impact your feelings? If so, how?
- Are there any climate preferences or needs (i.e. amount of sunlight, hotter/colder climates, etc)?
Once you’ve thought about your answers to questions like these, that will help filter out a lot of schools or at least point more clearly to certain ones as preferable options.
Since there’s not always agreement on what terms like likely/match/reach mean, I use the following buckets:
- Extremely Likely (80-99+%)
- Likely (60-79%)
- Toss-Up (40-59%)
- Lower Probability (20-39%)
- Low Probability (less than 20%)
What I tend to do is look at the school’s overall admissions rate. If it is below 20%, then I generally will group it in the low probability bucket regardless of how other numbers look (though if it’s something like 18-19%, then I might go through the steps below).
Look at test scores and see how yours compare to the school’s 25th-75th percentile (College Navigator is a great resource). Then look and see what percentage of students submitted test results.
- If at least half of students submitted a test, and your scores are in the 25th-75th percentile, then I keep the school in the admissions rate bucket. If higher than the 75th percentile, I move the school up one category and if lower than the 25th percentile, I move the school down one category.
- If less than half of students submitted a test and your scores are above the 50th percentile, then I’d move the school up one category. If between the 25th-50th I’d keep it in its original category. If below the 25th, it depends on how far below and how few students submitted a test. This also leads to the next step.
Look at GPA breakdowns.
- The Common Data Sets for each school (search “school name” and “common data set”) include tons of information, including a breakdown by GPA of the admitted class. These figures aren’t always the best because some schools only enter weighted GPAs (not helpful without knowing the weighting scale as schools across the country weight in different manners). Even with this caveat, it’s useful to see whether there are many students in your GPA range. For you with a 3.79UW GPA, you probably will be have a chance at nearly all schools, but when GPAs go below a 3.5 or a 3.0, or a 2.5, it can be really useful to see, how many students with that kind of GPA were admitted. Sometimes it’s none, so students with a 2.8 GPA might know that there chances are extremely minimal. Other times once might be something like 10% so they know they’d have a chance. On the other hand, if a school’s entering GPAs are primarily in the 2.5-3.5 category, and your GPA is well above that, it would also be a reason to boost a school into a higher category.
You don’t have to apply to any reaches or targets!
What you do need to do is apply to at least one, and preferably two, schools that are extremely likely to be affordable for your family, accept you, and that you would be happy to enroll in and attend for four years. Thus, if you found one school that fit all those criteria and was the right fit, you could be done.
That said, however, it’s always nice to have options. So, if there are other schools that you find that you would be happy to spend four years at and that could be affordable (via sticker price or merit/financial aid), then you can add them to your list. It doesn’t matter whether they’d be a toss-up or a low-probability or a likely or an extremely likely school…if you like the school, it can go on the list. Only add schools that you’d like to attend and that could be affordable.
The one caution I’d give is then to take a look at your entire list to see how it’s balanced. I find that most people tend to feel better if they have more acceptances than rejections. Some people, however, find that rejections fuel their desire to prove everyone wrong, so if they end up with 1 acceptance and 19 rejections, they’ll just go to their 1 acceptance and show all those 19 schools what a terrible mistake they made by not accepting them. And then there are some people who are truly crushed with any rejections, no matter how many acceptances they receive (though if this is the case, I would recommend counseling).
So, this is where you get to reflect on yourself again. What kind of person are you? If you’re like most people I know of, then you might want to have more schools in the toss-up, likely, and extremely likely buckets than you have in the lower or low probability buckets. But the more rejection you can handle, the more schools in the low/lower probability bucket can be in the overall list, but again, they don’t have to be there (only if you find you’d like to attend them and they cold be affordable).
Lastly, take a look at how extensive the different college applications are. Most public school applications are pretty simple. Private school applications, particularly at those in low probability buckets, will often have many essays to do as part of the application. Only apply to a number of schools where you can dedicate time and energy to doing those applications well and are willing to spend the money on ($75-90 for a college app is not unheard of). Don’t forget you’ll have all your senior coursework and any other activities you do, on top of all the essays and such for college applications. (Additionally, many public schools and less rejective privates will have essays for special scholarships or honors programs.)