<p>My daughter, who is a junior in a nationally ranked IB program with a 3.8GPA, is thinking about the following schools for history & economics:
University of Michigan (which her guidance councilor indicated she could use as a safety school)
Columbia (where I went as a graduate MBA student)
U of Chicago
U of Penn</p>
<p>Her ACT composite is a 33 (E-35, M-29, R-33, S-34) - 2nd try,
Her SAT is 2160 (760 Reading, 710 Math, 690 Writing) - 1st try</p>
<p>Which set of scores is better? Should both be sent? Any thoughts on whether she should take them again?</p>
<p>Not only are these scores essentially equivalent but they are reinforcing. The ACT English score suggests abilities stronger than the SAT Writing score and the ACT science score suggests quantitative abilities not reflected by either Math score. I would send them both.</p>
<p>BTW, these scores and grades are not strong enough to make Michigan a “safety school” (few scores are). Check out the SAT score profile for U of MI on many sites. You’ll find her SAT scores mostly “in-range” and her ACT just a little above the 25th-75th range. I would say she is a probable, but not a certain, admit, and am surprised a counselor would give you such advice, unless there is considerably more to her credentials than her grades and test scores. The Ivies you mention would be speculative. You’ll want her to apply to at least one less selective school.</p>
<p>For Ivy and Chicago, she should try to get 2250+/34+. Look at Common Data Set for these schools ( Google “common data set” and name of school). Even with higher scores, difficult to gain admission w/3.8 at the exclusive schools.</p>
<p>Retaking certainly wouldn’t hurt, but only if she’s able to devote some time to prep before then, or she’ll be likely to score at the same level again, or worse. She’s likely at a point that working with a tutor would be better than working on her own if that’s in your budget. I agree with the other comments that she’s in the ball park with her schools of choice, but nowhere near a guarantee of any sort. Good luck!</p>
<p>A true safety school is one for which your grades and test scores put you in the top 25% of those admitted and the college admits 60% or more of its applicants. In fact, a true safety school is one that has rolling admissions or early action so you can learn early whether you are admitted.</p>
<p>Michigan admits about 50%. If she is in state, it is a match and possibly close to a safety but not a safety . If she is out of state, it could even be a reach.</p>
<p>I appreciate your comments. As for University of Michigan, the International Academy (my daughter’s school) has something of a special relationship with U of M. The general acceptance rates might be 41%, but IA (as the school is known) the acceptance rates are about 82%. The school only has 150 students per class, is a magnet school for the area (south east Michigan) and has consistently ranked in the top 25 high schools in the nation per the Newsweek survey (and has for a few years been the number one ranked public school - but not for the past 3 years). Last year, 103 of the 150 students applied to Michigan. 84 were accepted (over half the class). Only 4 were outright rejected with the remaining 15 on the waiting list. All of the rejected/waiting list kids were in the bottom half of the class - which is no where near where my daughter is ranked (and IA doesn’t release rankings anyway given that it is a magnet school). IA also has a reputation of grading very tough, but that’s what they sign up to when they attend. Their classes start in mid August and run to the end of June. And all of their classes are taught at an AP or IB level. Michigan’s admissions rep has indicated that they typically rank the IA curriculum such that it adds 0.2 to 0.3 to any of their student’s grad point average - before considering things like weighted averages (which Michigan doesn’t look at). Also, because the principal of the school is also my daughter’s guidance councilor (more because of illness for one of the regular councilors), it is basically her knowledge of the system and her relationship with the Michigan rep that make me believe her when she noted that Michigan would be a safety school for my daughter. Sorry about the long-windedness.</p>
<p>Bluash,</p>
<p>Sure a 2250 SAT or a 34 or above ACT would help matters for the Ivys. God knows I wish my daughter would spend more time preparing for these standardized tests. But consider that acceptance is very much a numbers game. While the college admissions process is a crap-shoot wherever you apply, there are fewer students getting SATs above 2250 and 34 ACTs combined than there are freshman students at the top ten schools ranked by US News (it’s about 14,000 for both sets). And that doesn’t even include Dartmouth, Brown, or Cornell for the Ivys. Clearly there are many students with lower standardized test scores that have to fit into these institutions.</p>
<p>A 33 is in the middle 50% of applicants at U of C, Penn and Columbia. A 34 would put her at the 75 percentile. Seems like it would be the effort to properly prepare for the test (and is likely achievable).</p>
<p>Since she scored well on SAT-M, she can do math. Thus, I’d have her retake the ACT, since the M subscore is the easiest to raise. As the others have noted, a 34 looks very nice for an Ivy, and might even get her a look for merit money at Mich and her safeties.</p>
<p>Hint: ACT-M always has 4 trig problems on it, two of which are right angle problems solvable by the Pythagorean Thm. Easiest four points for anyone reasonably strong in math. And she only needs three more correct answers to round to a 34.</p>
<p>mekozak:
Of course my advice was based on the general case. It sounds as if your counseling is, indeed, well-informed and that you can rely on more specific information about your situation. I am glad to hear it and good luck to your D.</p>
<p>Your daughter should definitely retake the tests. I had similar scores as her for both tests, and after retaking went from 32–>34 on ACT and 2150—>2350 on the SAT with not a huge amount of extra effort. If you look at admissions data, there seems to be a significant acceptance rate increase with test score increases. Her writing and math scores are a little weak, and ideally she should have above 750 on each section of the SAT</p>