Which would you pick?

Parents Forum
1

<p>Son is down to deciding between three of his matches. He’s going for pre-optometry (likely as a biology major). He applied to a mix of larger publics and private LACs, because honestly he would do fine socially in either type of setting and didn’t have strong preferences one way or the other. More important factors were a reasonable distance from home (close but not too close) and whether he could continue fencing at the club level, which has been his primary sport for the last six years. We have visited all at different times (two in Fall, one in January).</p>

<p>Juniata College. This was his first choice since the visit last Oct and stayed that way throughout most of the process. A fit in a great many ways, but no option to continue fencing (nothing either on campus or within driving distance). Not the closest or farthest, but probably the easiest to get home since it’s on the Amtrak line. Campus is okay, some of the buildings and facilities are a little dated. Great traditions and friendly, supportive vibe.
FA summary: $21k merit, very good aid package. Would only need to accept $1,500 in work-study and $2,500 a year in direct subsidized loans…a four year debt total of $10,000.</p>

<p>Allegheny College. Has gained some ground recently and is fresher in the memory. Closest and fairly easy to get back home. Has a fencing club. Best academics of the three, edging out Juniata by a little bit. Campus facilities somewhat nicer. Not excited about the large Greek presence on campus.
FA summary: $15k merit, good aid package. Would need to accept $2,000 in work-study and $5,000 a year in subsidized loans (Direct and Perkins). Four year debt total of $20,000.</p>

<p>Ohio University, Athens. Best setting (both campus and town). Has a fencing club. Not as strong academically as the others, but being part of the same public system, is well-positioned to meet Ohio State’s optometry school requirements (his end goal). Farthest away and hardest to get home. Best facilities (library, dorms, athletic center, food, etc.).
FA summary: $7k merit, okay aid package. No work study. Would need to accept about $5,500 a year in loans, including $2,000 unsubsidized loans. Four year debt total of around $21,000-22,000.</p>

<p>All will have a net price to me that I can handle without too much strain, and that are within a few hundred dollars of each other. So out-of-pocket costs will be a wash. The main financial factors would be the work study time obligation and the total debt, especially with an eye* toward professional school. Conventional wisdom says minimize undergrad debt if going to professional/grad school, and he clearly understands the importance of that.</p>

<p>Which would you choose if this was your decision?</p>

<p>GbW</p>

<ul>
<li>sorry</li>
</ul>

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<p>If Juniata has been his first choice despite not having fencing, academics are close and he ends up with half the debt he’d have at the others, that’s what I’d choose. </p>

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<p>Juniata is a “College that Changes Lives” if that helps</p>

4

<p>I have been unimpressed with Juniata’s course offerings in the humanities when I’ve looked through them. Seems like a vocationally-oriented school, which doesn’t appeal to me. (But of course it is your son who is going, not me.) I’d lean in the direction of Allegheny or possibly even Ohio. (Ohio has a really interesting tutorial-style honors program.) I think that being able to keep up with a sport he loves is an important psychological and physical wellness factor for a college freshman.</p>

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<p>those debt amounts don’t sound bad at all. I wouldn’t let that be a deal breaker. for us it really is about the program at the school. it’s been an interesting challenge getting to the real facts about them at the schools.</p>

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<p>“Juniata is a “College that Changes Lives” if that helps”</p>

<p>Yep…As is Allegheny. A factor that was put into the decision-machine. Both are also ranked in USNWR’s top 10 “Up & Coming” liberal arts colleges.</p>

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<p>He could start a fencing club at Juniata. Surely they (like every other college) claim that if the club you want doesn’t exist, they’ll help you start it.</p>

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<p>Yep, that’s definitely an option. </p>

<p>He’s in the process of making his own decision, and has all the necessary data to make an informed one. Frankly, I would be 100% fine with any of the three.</p>

<p>But, I was more curious what choices other people would make when presented with the above options. </p>

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<p>As you already know, Juniata is great in the sciences. Bill (now Dr. William) Phillips, who was a classmate of mine in junior high and through 10th grade, got his undergraduate degree there and later won a Nobel Prize. Many others, including my (ex) brother-in-law, have gone from Juniata to excellent grad and professional schools. My adult daughter is teaching at Allegheny this year and has been impressed with the quality of her students. I don’t know much about Greek life there, but that is certainly
an important consideration. I know I would have been happier at a school without fraternities/sororities. I know very little about Ohio University.</p>

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<p>All colleges change lives, whether they are part of the marking consortium CTCL or not. Colleges with similar types of student bodies often join forces to market to high schoolers they want to attract, but it is no different than if the Big 10 markets together, or U of Cal campuses. It doesn’t make the CTCL schools any better or worse than a similar college.</p>

<p>I’d pick Ohio Univ. Since there is no work study in the package, he can get a job and control how much he makes and therefore how much he’ll need to borrow in future years. I believe the things you lists - nice library, fencing club, athletic facilities, are important.</p>

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<p>My brother in law was a dedicated swimmer in high school, but chose the small LAC older siblings had attended. He only lasted one semester there, then transferred to a school with a swim team. Don’t neglect the fencing if it is a huge part of his identity. There will be enough major changes to adjust to at any new college, but if he feels lost without fencing, it might be difficult to put down roots.</p>

<p>If Juniata really is first choice, do some research now to see if starting a fencing club will be a realistic possibility.</p>

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<p>Juniata. Highest merit, lowest debt, lowest work study, great opportunity for leadership if he started fencing club. All excellent points considering pre-optometry. Are there older sibs in enrolled in college that may effect future financial aid package?</p>

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<p>@Brighty No siblings; only child. Ohio actually has the lowest work-study ($0)</p>

<p>@powercropper While Juniata was his first choice through I’d say about 85% of the process, things seem to have pulled more even at this point.</p>

<p>Re: starting a club. Juniata talks the talk about starting new clubs. Fencing has some expensive equipment start up costs though, so there would need to be a critical mass of interested kids. He made an attempt to revive a defunct fencing club at his high school in 10th grade that didn’t really go anywhere, so the track record on that is not the best. He’s definitely not been participating in the sport as much this year as he used to. While it’s an important factor, I doubt it’s a true dealbreaker.</p>

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<p>Personally, I’d let the kid choose. It’s a huge bonus when you have that privilege. When things go wrong, and in life, things often go wrong, it’s just too easy to blame it on being somewhere one didn’t want to be in the first place. Young adults are fighting all kinds of demons these college years, and there are likely going to be issues of sorts in the years to come. That the kid picked the school is a plus in such scenarios. </p>

<p>So what we did, DH and I , was set the price we would kick in and then let the kids pick what they wanted. We didn’t get into the “this school is less expensive than that” mode, other than as a statement of fact. If they wanted to pick a school that cost less than our contribution, we’d split the excess with them, but we’d committed to that amount and they could have it if they so wanted, Heck, I’d give them the full amount but they came up with the split idea. </p>

<p>Be aware that you generally have to pay for optometry programs which means loans unless you have a money tree growing to fruition by then. Graduate school loans are at 5% or so. The interest in those ug loans will be cranking up even as you get forbearance from having to pay the principal, you realize, when in graduate school. The effect of interest on loans over time is a powerful whallop, and though optometrists do have good work/pay options these days, it still hurts to be paying for things past, especially, like 8 years past and more. Unless there is truly some clear advantage to picking a school that means more debt, in a case when loans are involved and parents are under financials stresses too, so that the likelihood of help from that quarter is low, it’s better to go with the option that costs the less in terms of the future. You gotta pay that money back and with interest, do remember. </p>

<p>Also, I don’t count work study as “aid” though technically it is so classified. When a student gets WS in a package that means that working that job means doing so to fund the so called award, when a lower WS or no WS award means you can work a job anyways to put towards your expected contribution. So when you look at what the final dolllar costs are at each school, take away the loans and WS and compare the COAs you estimate on your particular circumstance for each school to see which ones truly cost what. </p>

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<p>Thanks @cptofthehouse. I agree that it is a good thing to allow him as much ownership over the decision as possible. Both his mom and I are giving him plenty of decision space, and not indicating our own preferences at all.</p>

<p>I’m not asking this question via the OP to steer the kid in a certain direction. I’m just curious what others would do if presented with these three options. </p>

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<p>I gave choice within family affordability with full disclosure on cost and debt ramification so the kids got it. My kids could have stretched their choice ranges further with loans and more required work hours and dollars if they so chose, but came up with what was comfortable for them using the full allotment we gave them. They found out that unexpected costs arise and were glad to have that margin, as each of them needed it, each time in sophomore year. </p>

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<p>Regarding cost, there is a lot to be said for the fact that Ohio doesn’t include work study, which means that he can choose to borrow less by getting a job at whatever point he feels able to do so, rather than having work built into the financial equation.</p>

<p>Forgot to ask before: what are the conditions, such as GPA requirement, for retaining the merit awards mentioned above? That can be a crucial consideration.</p>

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<p>@Consolation No GPA requirements for Allegheny or Juniata. A 3.0 needed for Ohio. Frankly though, he needs to be at or higher than a 3.0 for optometry school admissions, so that’s not that big of a deal.</p>

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<p>3.0 isn’t bad. There are those that require a 3.5. Kids who are accustomed to pulling such grades in HS without a lot of effort can be rudely awakened in college. :)</p>

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<p>Oh, yes, it can be a big deal depending on the wording and conditions of gpa. A kid can screw up one term and lose the award, just like that, and many times there is no recourse. ALso bear in mind that B- is often a 2.667 and so it is possible a kid falls under that first year with some Bs and B-s and an A- or two. Happened to my son who has had an increasing trend, but yest there was a term(s) where he was not quite 3.0. A little different from gpa requirements that take all 8 semesters and maybe more into account. You take four courses and get 2 B-s and 2 Bs and you are under a 3.0, just like that for the term. So yes, these requirements can be a big deal.</p>