<p><a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB113236377590902105-lMyQjAxMDE1MzEyOTMxNjkzWj.html[/url]”>http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB113236377590902105-lMyQjAxMDE1MzEyOTMxNjkzWj.html</a></p>
<p>Interesting. I know someone who was worried about placing her daughter in the elementary feeder school in Cupertino. She is an average student who struggles with reading, and felt she would be in over her head in such a competitive and academic atmosphere. I found the contrast in attitude with Bellarmine Prep and Palo Alto schools to be telling, since both have very high standards, yet don’t have as high a percentage of Asian students. I also have heard of white students deciding not to apply to UC Irvine, describing the school as “too Asian” and feeling uncomfortable with being in the minority there. It might be a good life lesson for some of these kids to experience…</p>
<p>The problem is that Asians never leave the left coast. Ohio is seriously lacking an Asian population.</p>
<p>My D attends UCI and was surprised by the intensity of the Asian population- it had never crossed her mind and she attended a high school with somethign like 20-25% Asian kids. Also, assuming most of the kids are CA residents, we all thought every one would speak English. That is not the case. D is definitely a minority in her science classes, the same with econ classes, which is a sad thing for a class with a curve, because there are some Asian kids who do fit the stereotype, and therefore are killing the curve.</p>
<p>The other thing that is interesting is that when one culture focuses on grades & scores and the other focuses on the whole child- ECs & frats/sororities, it makes the playing field bumpy.</p>
<p>That said, even with 52% Asian population, that still leaves lots of non-Asian kids with whom you can connect. When the school has 10,000+ students, you can find friends with a common ground.</p>
<p>somemom, </p>
<p>I don’t understand. Isn’t raising the level of academic excellence a good thing?</p>
<p>Also, the whole thing that Asian culture focuses on grades and scores, while Caucasian culture focuses on the whole package is incorrect. If you look at India and China, you will see a lot of uneducated, poor people whose parents did not care about school. The reason why Asian-American culture is so driven by grades is because most Asian-American parents are in technical fields or moved to this country to give their kids a better life - hence the pressure.</p>
<p>One interesting thing to note here - and I am not accusing you somemom of racism - but when “white flight” initially occured, Caucasian families cited better schools, etc. In other words, Caucasian families said it wasn’t the fact that mainly African-Americans were there, but it was because the schools were bad - i.e. if the schools were good, they wouldn’t have minded if the population was predominantly African-American. Now the schools are unquestionably good, but “white flight” still occurs. I think it shows an underlying racism still present in our country.</p>
<p>Before reading your post, I use to think the reason why “white flight” and other types of voluntary segregation occured was because it was a poor and rich thing - i.e. rich people didn’t like to hang out with poor people. Therefore, a rich African American would be more accepted into a rich Caucasian community than a poor Caucasian American. I mean discriminating based on wealth is still bad, but at least there is a chance that a poor person can become rich.</p>
<p>So am I blaming your D for trying to find Caucasian friends she can relate to. Of course not. When you are a minority, you tend to find and hang out with other minorities. Many make the arguement that the reason there is racism and voluntary segregation is because minorities tend to stick with minorities and hence they are the reason why there is voluntary segregation. Look at what your daughter is doing - the same thing - except she is now the minority.</p>
<p>It seems that most people think that diversity is good as long as the majority retains its majority. It is like saying, “Oh yeah we are really diverse, we have 1 Asian-American, 2 African-Americans, etc. So we really are comfortable with minorities - as long as we retain the majority”.</p>
<p>Is this racism only applicable to Caucasians? Of course not - Asians, African-American, and every other race, religion, gender have the same biases.</p>
<p>I think one is truly not racist, when they marry or are willing to marry someone outside their race or religion or are willing to adopt someone outside their race or raise them up in a different religion.</p>
<p>Again, somemom - I am not accusing you or anyone else here of racism. If these are your true feelings, it is better to speak frankly about them so that we understand the problem.</p>
<p>I know an Asian kid who refused to apply to UCI because he strolled around campus, then came back and told his parents it was “too Asian.” 
He chose another campus, where he also plays a varsity sport.</p>
<p>I think the issue of high schools that foster atmospheres that are so competitive that even good students feel like failures is a real one, as is an overconcentration on math and sciences in a high school that is not a designated magnet school for those whose true interest is math or science. I wish that these issues hadn’t been put in racial (or ethnic terms), however.</p>
<p>I agree- I have met students at my daughters school who were too concerned with grades- and the pressure seemed to be coming from the parents to get the "best "grades so they can go to the “best” colleges</p>
<p>Not concerned so much with what they were learning- they prefered an easier teacher if the course description was the same- but they had to get straight A’s and wouldn’t consider anything less.- and what IMO was even worse- that they were heavily critical of others who took a course that * they* viewed as lesser quality- even if the student was very interested in subject.
It would be hard to go to school with a majority of students like that- who seemed to be focused on high school classes and grades as a means to an end- " a prestigous college "- instead of taking time to value the high school education for what it is.
Im not talking about students who are way beyond high school, or even a lesser quality school and students are focusing on getting out and choosing a college that is a better fit.
But this is a good high school, and it was during a field trip that should have been engaging and interesting for these students-but they kept looking beyond…
Whatever happened to be here now ?
I want my kids to know they are living their lives now.
Not when they graduate from high school or college. Not when they get married or have a child, or gain 10 lbs/lose 10 lbs, make 6 figures or buy a house- or have the perfect job.
I am all for having goals- but I don’t agree with making the goal the whole enchilada</p>
<p>I can identify with the “too Asian” sentiment to a certain extent. I’m Caucasian, and when we went back to South Dakota to visit family, everyone was white, everyone spoke English only, and everyone ate, well, white people’s food (nothing ethnic or whatever). I vowed then and there to go to a college with at least 35% of students from a minority background. :)</p>
<p>“The problem is that Asians never leave the left coast. Ohio is seriously lacking an Asian population.”</p>
<p>I’m way up here in Buffalo, NY, and State Univ. of NY at Buffalo must be 70% asian. anyone w/ a 3.4 gpa and 1450+ on sats gets like 400 dollars a semester to attend! i dont know how many yen or rupees or w/e that must be! lol, anyways, other than the college scene the amount of asians here isn’t that intense, the universities are beyond loaded though.</p>
<p>Is it possible that there are gifts and abilities that occur more commonly in certain races? Is it racist to suggest that? There sure are a lot of gifted Asian-American kids.</p>
<p>I agree with the supposition that many Asians who came to this country were able to come because of their training and education. They are smart people, and it makes sense that their kids would have inherited some of that intelligence as well as been raised in an intellectually stimulating environment with expectations about academic performance.</p>
<p>But last week I was at an awards ceremony for a city-wide (Houston) arts contest. The semifinalists in most of the categories (sculpture, photography, multimedia, etc.) were mostly white with a good number of Asian and Latino kids, and a few African American kids. </p>
<p>The thing that struck me was the painting category. 9 semifinalists were Asian and 1 was white. The paintings were just beautiful. That didn’t come from living in a home where painting is encouraged. It came from pure talent (and some good teaching, undoubtedly). You can see for yourself on this page of the winners: <a href=“http://cultureshapers.com/va/painting-winners05.mgi[/url]”>http://cultureshapers.com/va/painting-winners05.mgi</a></p>
<p>We’ve all seen that there are also many talented young Asian musicians. I just wonder about it…and it seems like you can’t even talk about or ask questions about why, because you might be labeled a racist if you suggest that some gifts may be more prevalent in some races.</p>
<p>Va:</p>
<p>I see your points, perhaps I did not express mine clearly enough.</p>
<p>My D was “warned” that UCI is mega-Asian, she did not care, she had Asian friends at her old school, so, what’s the big deal? Well, the big deal in a class of 500-1200 (depending how they group sections for the curve) is that a few (percentage wise) stereotypical Asian students can blow the curve- 97% the lowest for an A on one exam. So, that does reinforce the whole stereotype thing.</p>
<p>Also, my D had Asian friends, some ESL, some not, but all friendly. That was high school, in a small environment. At a large university there is no reason to go out of your way to make friends, so she found herself lonely initially, and relatively ignored by the huge Asian population in her science/math type major. She has friends of various ethnicities (including Asian, but they get annoyed with the kids who perpetuate the stereotype, too!) and could be seen as a URM herself, that’s not the point. The point is that in some schools there is a certain feel to the culture of the school when one group becomes predominant- maybe it is simply a rude awakening to people who have been the majority. </p>
<p>However, I would say my kids are relatively race-blind from their upbringing and the unique experiences in high school with so many kids from so many places- they were not the “Asian” kid or the “black” kid or the “Mexican” kid, they were who they are and that is all that mattered, but it is not the same at the university level. Both of my kids are amazed by both the racism and reverse racism they have encountered at university- they thought that was something on old TV shows, not for real, not in the 21st century.</p>
<p>D is not racist at all, but she has certainly found there really are racial barriers and that stereotypes are based on some factual start.</p>
<p>The white flight in that article seems to me like kids who don’t want to compete with the incredibly hard-working and diligent Asian kids in their school. I used to have a business which employed many teenagers, all different races & I can tell you, culturally Asian kids worked harder and most immigrants from any culture worked harder than spoiled white kids- just the way it was ;)</p>
<p>I’m a Chinese-speaking, white grandson of an Appalachian coal miner, married to an African-American woman whom I met when we were classmates in law school. More than 60% of the students at our neighborhood school are Asian-American; like my wife and I, the parents of my children’s classmates seized the education opportunities that were offered to them, and worked very hard to get where they are today. I am thrilled to be raising our children in an environment where their classmates’ families place the same kind of emphasis on learning that we do.</p>
<p>Somemom,</p>
<p>I read over my post and it seemed a little rude :)</p>
<p>I completely understand the fact that you want the best for your D and that she is probably not racist (I’ve have of course never met her, so I can’t really know for sure :)) as neither are you.</p>
<p>My point was that </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Asians seem smarter because their parents are from technical fields and pressure them - i.e. in the extreme case, if HYPS students and only HYPS students were sent to China, they would think all of America is brilliant too. You couldn’t tell who is smarter if you picked a random Asian, African-American, or Caucasian. Furthermore, on average, if you raise any race in an environment that does not encourage high academic achievement, they will do poorly in school.</p></li>
<li><p>It is just sad that people can think that a school is too “Asian”, but not a think of a school as too “white”. I am sure if there is a predominantly white school in China, people in China will think that the school is too “white”, but never that a school is too “Asian”. We have removed laws that encourage racism, but social values still persist. It is not your fault or anyone’s fault and only time can make the situation better - look at the Caucasians in this country: In the 1900s, Italian-Americans did not associate with Irish-Americans who did not associate with German or Russian-Americans. Now does anyone really care socially?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I am sure your D will be more accepting than you are (again, not to say that you are racist) as her children will be more accepting than she is and so on. For instance, young people are more accepting of people of all sexual orientation, while older people aren’t. </p>
<p>Again somemom, I don’t think you are racist or is your daughter - which I have stated in this post and the post before. I just think you have biases that are present in all races and all people :).</p>
<p>timely,</p>
<p>Asians are better musicians, because there parents encourage them to take music classes. It is not racist to suggest that one race might be better at something than another. It is just false. You are not taking into account lurking variables that exist. For instance, if I wear a particular shirt and do well on an interview - does that mean that shirt is a good luck shirt?</p>
<p>There are similar problems in a lot of schools here in central Jersey, esp. West Windsor-Plainsboro North and South. Being Asian in an almost entirely white school shows shows me how ignorant some people still are, but even so, i’d rather stay here than go over to west windsor - the competition’s just too intense. if i lived in a place like cupertino or wwp n/s, i’d want to leave too. there’s little integration and too many cliques based on race.</p>
<p>while I don’t disagree that parents within reason should be able to raise their children as they see fit- there should be choices.
My niece for example has 2 hours of homework everynight- she is 7 years old. Some of the families in her school are switching to homeschool or private because of the schools policy. But not everyone is able to have those choices. I beleive 2 hours is overwhelming and limits the time children have after school to do more important things- like play. :)</p>
<p>It is available to parents who are able to make the time and money commitment to have their children begin music instruction at 3 years old, but what about parents who don’t want that path for their children?
Do we want schools that teach music to students who began in grade school or even middle school or are we going to limit that instruction to those who began before K</p>
<p>My D2 for example- took instrument lessons in 3rd and 4th gd. that was all the district provided. We knew other parents who then paid for private lessons for their children to continue their studies , but that was not an option for us. In her high school, I believe beginning instrumental instruction is limited to guitar- if that- the other students have had instrumental lessons all the way along, even though the district does not provide that.
So in a school that is in a historically AA neighborhood- with some of the great black muscians coming from that area, you have their nationally award winning orchestra and jazz band looking fairly white and asian- no blacks.
Renting or purchasing an instrument is expensive, private lessons are even more expensive- not everyone is able to make those opportunities happen for their kids- but in our society- if you don’t make those decision when they are 5- they wont necessarily have the opportunity later- its pretty sad.</p>
<p>Besides projects and reports done at the last minute, I don’t think I ever spent 2 hours a night doing homework. Granted I am an underachiever, but for a 7 year old that is insane! How many times does the kid have to spell the word right or do her times tables?</p>
<p>the assignments apparently include along with math and spelling- writing an illustrated story everynight- since she is a perfectionist and needs to make very detailed drawings- this is probably where much of her time goes. HOwever- I don’t think that is probably the case for all of the other students whose families are protesting at the workload
I also can’t imagine a teacher wanting to assign two hours of homework everynight cause then who is gonna correct it?
Or is it just checked off that they did it and not really looked at?</p>
<p>EK–two hours? My seven year old has about 30 min. (20 min. of it is reading), and I can’t even get her to do that. If she had two hours, I would be looking for another school. </p>
<p>That’s two bad about band. Kids should be able to start an instrument in 9th or 10th grade, definitely. Not that I would want to move back to South Dakota, but in the public schools there, they still offer free private lessons and free instruments. Here, no private lessons except what you can afford outside of the school system. My D did manage to be given an extremely banged up baritone to play in band here in CA, though. It is probably 30 years old, left over from the glory days of CA public schools, when music was well funded . . . </p>
<p>I don’t have any experience with a large Asian population in the local schools where I live, though at most musical events my kids participate in outside of the school stuff, Asians are in the majority.</p>
<p>I think the standard rule of thumb was 10 minutes for each grade- reading is probably extra- but my D2 didn’t read in 2nd gd. ( well and she was at private school that only had math homework)
if the student is taking a lot longer- then they either have learning disabilties- or there is too much.</p>
<p>My D2 took clarinet and she was actually getting good- it was frustrating when that ended after 4th gd. we knew lots of people who did have their kids take private lessons- but at that age- she wasn’t that hip on practicing anyway- taking lessons at school would have been ok- but making a big production that required taking time away from other things ( like sports and annoying her sister) was too stressful.</p>
<p>Several good friends of hers are in the orchestra- although it seems like a huge time commitment- especially this time of year with all the holiday concerts-I don’t know how they keep up- with rehersals and all their homework- although their parents tell me they are often up late/early catching up- and as far as I know- none of them really have time for “dating”. ( Of course considering some of the risky behavior kids get into- maybe that is a good thing- )</p>
<p>Hey guys,</p>
<p>I just want to apologize if any of my posts seemed like I was labeling people racists. That was not my intention. However, I do think this was a really good discussion.</p>