<p>We’re obviously using different standards, too. Mixed to me doesn’t equal 1/16 or 1/32.</p>
<p>This is timely. My daughter just this morning turned in a report for her History of Africa class on Spencer Wells’ Journey of Man. According to him, we ALL came from Africa. The entire movie is on YouTube. What I have watched so far is fascinating.</p>
<p>CPUscientist, you brought up the adoption question before. What would you consider a child born to, say, fairly indigenous parents in South America, but raised in the US from the time they were born in a “white” US household, yet most people assume is Indian (as in, subcontinental and not Native American) due to their skin color and appearance? </p>
<p>I know I’m splitting a lot of hairs here, but that’s what this sort of discussion is for. ;)</p>
<p>I had a discussion about this recently with a guy from Lebanon. He’s from Lebanon because his parents moved there from Armenia. That means he is, without DNA analysis, Armenian by ethnic identity and Lebanese at least to an extent as national identity. I said “at least to an extent” because he identifies as Lebanese here but will not explicitly identify himself that way to ethnic Lebanese because they tend to consider him Armenian. This speaks to the confusion between ethnic/racial identity and national identity. </p>
<p>My cousins used to joke about listing African-American on college applications … because they’re Egyptian and Egypt is in Africa. But they aren’t “African” in the sense the word was meant … and aren’t in many eyes “Egyptian” because they are Jewish, even though as Jews they were possibly there before Islam existed. </p>
<p>These labels are very easy to play around with as long as you recognize they are used generally and specifically … and sometimes in the same sentence.</p>
<p>As long as they didn’t seriously think they were America’s definition African-American…</p>
<p>Can someone please explain to me why a person born and raised in Africa, and whose family is from Africa, is considered an African-American?</p>
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<p>I actually knew of an ORM HS classmate who was proud and oblivious enough to brag about doing this openly to gain AA admission to some elite colleges that word go around. </p>
<p>While his family did immigrate to the US from an African country, his family originated from elsewhere and didn’t spend much in Africa by his own admission. Many of us thought he was crooked for doing that and bragging about it. At least one HS friend slipped in a subtle joke at his expense in our yearbook.</p>
<p>This is timely. My daughter just this morning turned in a report for her History of Africa class on Spencer Wells’ Journey of Man. According to him, we ALL came from Africa. The entire movie is on YouTube. What I have watched so far is fascinating.</p>
<p>Spencer Wells is on point!</p>
<p>I have never had my African American heritage called into question in the US, but when I visited Nigeria ( and said I was “black”) , folks said…" yeah…right…".</p>
<p>It used to be so much simpler in my childhood. The world was divided into white, black, red and yellow (Caucasoid, negroid, Native American=Indian, mongloid) as we studied it in school. Nevermind that no one is truly any of those colors. Me- I’m pink (does that make me a person “of color”- a term I despise as it basically is used for white/nonwhite, lumping all sorts of diverse people together). </p>
<p>Fast forward- Hispanic is considered an ethnic group that is a subdivision of white. Here I am finding forms wanting to know if I am white nonHispanic by a check off box, sigh. I guess they are trying to meet the language/cultural needs of a very significant minority here. But people from any continent are not uniform. Europeans range from Nordic to Mediterranean et al. Africans from Arabic to sub Saharan. Asians from Indians to Chinese et al. Hispanics can be pure Spanish in origin or have ancestors in the Americas before the Europeans came.</p>
<p>Is being Jewish an ethnicity or a religion??? Getting rid of simple stereotypic classifications makes life so much more interesting/confusing. Classifications are used to serve some purpose. Hence the changes in the US census designations- once upon a time they cared about which part of Europe people claimed in their ancestry. Now ethnicities and an expanded list that includes more than one answer and “other”.</p>
<p>I have discovered there are advantages and disadvantages to every type. Short or tall. Straight or hair that frizzes- how many teens try to change by curling or straightening their hair??? Sunburn, suntan or well protected skin. Could go on and on. Interesting thread.</p>
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<p>For US census purposes, Hispanic is a separate question from the race one, so someone who is Hispanic or non-Hispanic may be of any race or combination of races, although white alone is the most common one for those who say they are Hispanic.</p>
<p>Wis - that’s not accurate. I ask demographic data in surveys all the time, following US census guidelines. You are asked your race, and then Hispanic is a separate question. You could be Hispanic and black, or Hispanic and white.</p>
<p>What about people who are immigrants from Central and South America and are descendants of the indigenous people there? Can they check off both Hispanic and Native American? Or do we understand the term Native American to include only Native North Americans?</p>
<p>This discussion is mixing up several things. As noted, Hispanic is not a racial designation, but rather a cultural one. Thus (for example) a white baby from Wisconsin who was adopted and raised speaking Spanish by a Mexican-American family can legitimately define himself as Hispanic. This is not true, however, of Asian, or African-American/black, which are ethnic designations. You also have to distinguish this from national origin–which is why South Africans are not, and can never be, African-Americans.</p>
<p>I know a man who considers himself African-American because he was born and raised in Africa, as were his parents and grandparents, then came to the United States as an adult and is now a citizen. By just about any definition, he is white.</p>
<p>This is timely. My daughter just this morning turned in a report for her History of Africa class on Spencer Wells’ Journey of Man. According to him, we ALL came from Africa. The entire movie is on YouTube. What I have watched so far is fascinating.</p>
<p>What an adventure! This book takes one back 60,000 years ago, to the real-life Adam (not to be confused with the Biblical Adam.) It traces the journey of man literally, from Africa where we first evolved to across the globe. The theories presented explain, logically, why we are so different and at the same time why some people/cultures are so alike but continents apart. Superbly written & user friendly scientific reading. One definitely will not get lost in scientific-mumbo-jumbo. Highly recommended.-Tahira’s review</p>
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<p>As I understand it in order to be “Native American” you need to be recognized by one of the tribes up on our side of the border.</p>
<p>The U.S. remains a land full misunderstanding and confusion when it comes to racial matters. I mean really, we have folks who’ll fight to their last breath to argue that Charlize Theron and Teresa (Mrs. John) Kerry are “African-Americans.” LOL.</p>
<p>Interesting…</p>
<p>My dad’s side is 100% mutt, not even needing DNA to identify it as a member did an extensive genealogy going back to the 1400s where possible.</p>
<p>He married a British thoroughbred (not a stakes class racer, but purebred, nonetheless).</p>
<p>I identify mutt - fairly proudly.</p>
<p>I guess our movie affiliation would be Lady and the Tramp.</p>
<p>I wonder how long our DNA list would be…</p>
<p>Again, there are a lot of things being shoved together. For example, being “Native American” is either official or unofficial, with official being eligibility for tribal benefits and the like. (The tribes themselves run those processes - and the lawsuits over the matter when casino money is at stake are an interesting story.) Many people believe they are part Native American, though most likely aren’t. One of our senators, Elizabeth Warren, was raised believing she was part Native American and that became a campaign issue because Harvard listed her as diversity in the law school faculty - with the implication by her opponent that she’d been hired because of that, which wasn’t true, and it led to some really weird moments when she had to describe learning the stories weren’t true and how she’d found out Harvard was listing her after the fact, etc. </p>
<p>Take Paul Newman. He considered himself Jewish - because he said it was the more difficult choice - but only his father was Jewish and most Judaism (and certainly Israel) wouldn’t recognize him as being Jewish. But if Jews followed Islamic tradition, the religion of the father passes so he would be Jewish. Or take Stella McCartney. She also considers herself Jewish … and she would be recognized as being Jewish because Linda Eastman was. (The last name was fabricated by her father, who was born Leopold Epstein and became Lee Eastman.) But if we follow the Islamic rule, then she’s not. </p>
<p>So a lot of the definitions are arbitrary or tradition and the groupings are made for official purposes or by stories and beliefs for unofficial purposes. Some scholarship programs, for example, are only open to x and x has to be defined, even though any definition is inherently imperfect.</p>
<p>I highly recommend looking up Calvin Trillin’s writings about the “race clerks” in Louisiana. Officials whose jobs were to assign racial classifications. Or, paraphrasing, as one person said when suing to not be listed as black, “We weren’t black. We sat in front of the black people in Church … and behind the white people.”</p>
<p>They should have told that white supremacist nut the DNA test indicated Sammy Davis, Jr. was his real dad.</p>