<p>In my opinion, affirmative action should only cater to those who are needy and willing to learn, not so that a college can have an even distribution of races.</p>
<p>Not this again…</p>
<p>Look, private institutions can do whatever they want. If you don’t like how they do business, don’t write them tuition checks.</p>
<p>I disagree with it. I think that financial affirmative action is necessary, though. But I plan to go to a UC, so no issue there.</p>
<p>Nearly all private institutions receive federal funding, however, which is what complicates matters.</p>
<p>With that said, I do prefer and understand “financial affirmative action,” since one’s race does not lead to being disadvantaged, but one’s income does.</p>
<p>Not only is it a tad bit racist… but who wants to feel like their accomplishments in life are due to racial affirmative action? Especially if they receive public funding why should they be allowed to “do whatever they want?”</p>
<p>And those top private schools that do partake in affirmative action are our business… they are usually ranked best in the nation. Because MIT goes easy on certain groups (20% are black and Hispanic; I’m not saying that all of them didn’t deserve to go there, but some don’t deserve to be there at all), it makes it MUCH harder for other ethnic groups to get in.</p>
<p>Let’s start a poll for racial affirmative action:
Supportive: 1?
Opposed: 3</p>
<p>Add on as you post.</p>
<p>This thread will be closed within the next 48 hours. In the meantime, enjoy the intellectual vacuum you just created.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The title of your thread is likely to result in a skewed sample.</p>
<p>^^ How did I violate CC’s rules?</p>
<p>How is this any different from <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/964256-bias-bigotry-academia.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/964256-bias-bigotry-academia.html</a></p>
<p>Also, how do you know it’s getting closed in 48 hours? I thought moderators only had the power to do that. And why wasn’t I notified?</p>
<p>I don’t understand where you’re coming from with that so-called “intellectual vacuum.”</p>
<p>
Oh God! Diversity? Watch out!</p>
<p>ps: it’s not an even distribution of races.
It’s discriminatory, but how is it racist?
You know this from experience? Wait, no, you don’t.
How is it “our business” since “they they are usually ranked best in the nation”? I can only assume that’s what you meant with the ellipses.</p>
<p>^
Of course it’s not an even distribution of races per se. But colleges don’t like to have an overwhelming majority of one race over the other (i.e. 85%+ of one race, ~1% of another race).</p>
<p>Okay, fine wrong word usage. It is more discriminatory than racist. It can be perceived by some that they need “help” to get into college because of the race they are born into.</p>
<p>I admit that it was too harsh by saying that some don’t deserve to go there at all. They have to be at least a little qualified. Nevertheless, I know people who got into Yale with 80ish averages and less than 2000 on their SATs. These outliers were accepted mainly on the basis of affirmative action. There were definitely people more qualified who did not get in. So yes, I do know people who are less qualified and got into those top colleges. Don’t assume things about people you don’t even know. </p>
<p>I believe that everyone should have a right to higher education. And why should it be harder for one race to get into college over the other? If you dream about a nationally renowned university; one of the best in the world, why on earth should your race matter and factor into admissions? If you dream about a college, you should work for it.</p>
<p>All I’m saying is that resources should be provided for those who want to learn, to those who really don’t have much. These are the real disadvantaged people.</p>
<p>I love the people who try to play down affirmative action as a tie breaker or small nudge while all credible quantifiable data points that it is a huge advantage.</p>
<p>Also, I question the ever so popular statement that a university should strive for an equal representation of races in relationship to the US. If they cannot see the fallacy in this argument it is no wonder that they support racially discriminatory policies such as affirmative action.</p>
<p>It also irks me when people say that private universities should be allowed to admit whomever they want. If that was the case, what would stop the university from accepting only whites? Oh wait, private universities receive federal funding and support and should be regulated by the government with respect to civil rights.</p>
<p>
Prestigious private universities are not charities. They are not saints. They are businesses. They make the business decision to admit URMs at higher rates. If you have a problem with that, why are you applying?</p>
<p>EDIT: Regarding government funding, I’m not a lawyer and can’t help with the actual letter of the law. However, just as research funding and federal grants to religiously-affiliated institutions are generally considered okay we allow private schools some flexibility in this case as well.</p>
<p>Read <a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/23/scotus.affirmative.action/[/url]”>http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/23/scotus.affirmative.action/</a></p>
<p>^ Prestigious private universities offer much more financial aid and scholarships to those who can get in (based on the quality of their academics, or their race) than public universities. Also, see [Project</a> on Student Debt: Financial Aid Pledges](<a href=“http://www.projectonstudentdebt.org/pc_institution.php]Project”>http://www.projectonstudentdebt.org/pc_institution.php).</p>
<p>They have much more funding than public universities; I don’t know why you are saying that they aren’t saints.</p>
<p>They also receive federal funding (the only reason I haven’t mentioned this before is b/c it’s been mentioned many times before). I was only adding on that they were prestigious, so it would be wrong to deprive others of the best-quality education in the world by accepting certain less qualified candidates through affirmative action.</p>
<p>The trouble is, that although those who are accepted into the prestigious private universities often do not have the opportunities for academic excellence. They are not rich enough to receive SAT prep or any prep for that matter. They can’t always afford books. They may have jobs to support a family. They cannot go to private feeder high schools. And the list goes on.</p>
<p>I don’t agree that a private university has the right to do whatever it wants for various reasons. It’s also a question about justice and being fair.</p>
<p>^ Harvard’s mission is not to provide an academic meritocracy. I believe Harvard has repeatedly expressed interest in educating future leaders to serve society. I once read an interesting article which analyzed Harvard grads and found that recruited athletes actually reached significant leadership roles at a higher rate than “normal” Harvard graduates. The point there was that less “intelligent” athletes actually were better at accomplishing Harvard’s mission than others with better academic credentials.</p>
<p>My point is that private universities do not exist to make high school students happy or treat them fairly. They exist to fulfill their own goals.</p>
<p>BTW, I’m not so sure why you conclude that prestigious private schools offer “the best-quality education”. Even if such a thing could be measured, I’m not convinced that the true purpose of such institutions is quality undergraduate education.</p>
<p>
Huh. Is that directed towards me? I don’t think I’ve made any assumptions, but I think you have. Let me remind you:
Let me ask you something: do you deny the fact that there are whites and Asians in prestigious universities who “don’t deserve to be there at all”? </p>
<p>
Because the university is a separate entity and doesn’t care about your sense of entitlement? “I worked hard, therefore I deserve a position in this institution” isn’t how things work no matter how much you dream it to be the case.</p>
<p>
Have you ever considered that it might be beneficial to have different points of view in an academic setting? And maybe, just maybe, different races have something, namely a different point of view, to offer in such an institution?</p>
<p>That second sentence was funny though. “GUH, if they can’t see past their own stupidity, it’s no wonder they support affirmative action, GUHH.” That type of attitude will get you far!</p>
<p>^<a href=“@goingmeta”>B</a> **Wow, almost all your arguments are based on semantics and nothing more. If you don’t have any good arguments, then there is no need to be so obnoxious.</p>
<p>If you want to refute anybody’s comments or make any cogent arguments, attack anti-affirmative action comments directly without semantics or bringing up something that is unrelated to affirmative action.</p>
<p>And, no I didn’t make assumptions, I know for a fact these people were accepted on the basis of affirmative action. Isn’t that comment another assumption you just made; that I assumed these outliers were because of affirmative action?</p>
<p>^^
The Ivies, all of which are private, are known to provide quality education, which is acknowledged by the entire world. They receive vast amounts of federal aid. **How on earth does race-based affirmative action benefit them?
**
I oppose it because I think America should be a meritocracy. If a university only cares about its own advancement, I feel that it is unjust. And how does affirmative action promote the university’s interests? You said that those active in athletics became active leaders. What does that have to do with race-based affirmative action?</p>
<p>^^^^^^^^^^
very nice empty threat</p>
<p>
Really? How do you know?</p>
<p>
Where do you see me arguing over semantics in my last post?</p>
<p>^ Again? I know them and have heard about them. They receive various scholarships from affirmative action groups and are outliers when it comes to academics. Many people have verified this, even guidance counselors. I’m sure many others have seen this as well in other schools. There is no doubt about it, so stop questioning its validity for the 3rd time.</p>
<p>Let’s see:
-“even distribution”
-“racist”
-see for yourself; look at your many “quotes”</p>
<p>
I think you need to work on your comprehension. I wasn’t nitpicking anybody’s word choice in my last post.</p>
<p>
Oh man! Questioning the validity of dubious statements? How dare somebody do that? I mean, it’s not like it’s suspicious that you know these details about other people. It’s not strange that you talk about others’ scholarships with counselors–nope not at all.</p>
<p>Though, I’m almost certain you made that tidbit about the guidance counselor up. Counselors don’t release information like that to other students.</p>
<p>Since you’re ignoring the content of my posts, I’ll ask you again: do you deny that there are whites and Asians who are equally undeserving of their position in higher education? If not, why is it unfair only when it occurs through affirmative action?</p>
<p>And again, nobody really cares about what you believe. As long as there is social inequality, then there will be a need to “level the playing field.” I don’t know if these high-tier universities enact such policies out of perceived responsibility or because it’s strictly mandated by the government, but I don’t feel as though it’s such a disastrous idea (and guess what? I’m white). You sound like one of these kids who’s so bitter about not getting his way (maybe you got rejected by your first choice?), that he can’t see it any other way.</p>
<p>Now I have work to do.</p>
<p>Of course counselors won’t mention students… they won’t release that info. I just said guidance counselors “verified” it; once again, you are assuming things. But they will ALLUDE to those outliers and affirmative action. It would be stupid to think that a guidance counselor will directly state a student got in because of affirmative action. But they will mention trends, especially as seen on naviance and acceptance histories (which are revealed on naviance; you get to see how many people applied and got in). There is no doubt that MIT is HEAVY on affirmative action, and they WILL point that out. There is no denying it. If I had an 85 avg, and asked my GC to chance me, she would recommend I apply somewhere else. Okay, maybe they shouldn’t allude to such things, but what are you going to do if my GC did? You haven’t been to my school, you haven’t met my GC, or anything. Schools, GCs, etc. don’t always abide to a rigid standard of rules, even if they should. I’m not going to recant what I said… I stick by it because it’s the truth. My GC alluded to affirmative action.</p>
<p>The scholarships: on several tests, they ask you for your ethnicity. Your guidance counselor often gives you a list of scholarships you are eligible for. The guidance counselors at my school have never told me about affirmative action scholarships. So yes, the sentence where I mentioned scholarships, that was only through students, not guidance counselors. Once again with the semantics. Guidance counselors aren’t allowed to release scholarships that other students have received. But those who apply for race-based affirmative action do tell other students… and the word spreads.</p>
<p>And I haven’t even applied to college yet. When will you stop assuming things. Stop making a fool of yourself.</p>
<p>Of course there will be instances where Asians and whites get in when they shouldn’t based on their academic records. The admissions process is subjective, and some are venal. But AGAIN, we are looking at overall trends. And unlike you, I can back them up with statistics, and not bias:
<a href=“Home - WND”>Bias and bigotry in academia;
<p>You can also look at this thread for better arguments:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/964256-bias-bigotry-academia.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/964256-bias-bigotry-academia.html</a></p>
<p>Next time reply when you have evidence for what you say.</p>