Who is this Obama you all are talking about?

<p>BigApple you just proved my point for McCain</p>

<p>Look at their early stuff, low-level stuff, behind-the-scenes stuff. It will give a fuller picture of the candidate than everything that gets played out on the national stage. I think this is especially true with candidate we THINK we know. </p>

<p>McCain had the option to jump the line for propaganda reasons, he declined (no one was watching him then).</p>

<p>He cheered when his father ordered the bombing run on Hanoi Hilton.</p>

<p>He has for many years discussed and tattled on pork barrel spending before running again for pres…come on 3 mil on bear feces study? </p>

<p>Look in whatever direction you want, but with everyday I do research he has stood for what he said and he does not waffle. I like someone who won’t change bc of polls</p>

<p>These are Obamas points re immigration/Mexico
I particulary believe in the last point- </p>

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<p>“where is the proof that he can lead a nation”</p>

<p>You never get proof. I’m not saying experience doesn’t matter – I wish that Obama had spent four years in the Cabinet, among other things. But there is no possible track record that provides proof that someone will excel in a new job. Grant had way more executive leadership experience when he entered the White House than Lincoln did, but nobody was tempted to put Pres. Grant up on Mount Rushmore.</p>

<p>“He’s never even run a business”</p>

<p>He’s run the Harvard Law Review, which goes way beyond herding cats. It’s like herding Siberian tigers who want to eat you and take your job.</p>

<p>The track record of ineptness and, in some cases, of international criminality pretty much eliminate Dodd, Biden, Richardson, and Clinton, as far as I’m concerned.</p>

<p>very good points Hanna</p>

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<p>I guess we disagree on this. My friend who is on their staff says they do, for what that’s worth. Have you ever read their Website? They have a blog on their home page that is definitely left. It’s what they choose to put in the most prominent spot in their home page. They aren’t wild-eyed Air America fanatics, they are a thoughtful bunch who writes well, and they certainly aren’t shills for the Democratic Party, but, yeah, they do have their leftie goggles on.</p>

<p>EDITED: You could do a lot worse that have a subscription to both The Washington Monthly and The Economist.</p>

<p>EK, </p>

<p>Okay I give Obama a point…we need Mexico to work with us, currently I read that 10% of Mexico’s economy comes from money that the illegals sent back to families in Mexico.</p>

<p>Let me state this right here and now, I am a military dependent, our base had a horrific accident where an enlisted child (13 yrs old) was hit at the cross walk(the immigrant only clipped the 11 yr old bro. and friend…sarcasm) by an illegal immigrant who was driving a car owned and registered to another illegal… the child was airlifted to a hospital, he has spent the past 14 mos. (happened 2 days prior to Turkey DaY 06) in rehab, a child who had a fuutre now can only write I love you and no longer speaks… his father defends every citizen and to hear a politician say bring them out of the shadows and give them a pass by paying a fine is beyond any words I can ever write.</p>

<p>BTW go to NoVA and deal with the MS-13… another problem</p>

<p>Another article worth reading about Obama is a piece that appeared in the New York Times Magazine last November: <a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/magazine/04obama-t.html?pagewanted=1[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/magazine/04obama-t.html?pagewanted=1&lt;/a&gt; I’d love to read an article about him in a conservative magazine. Are there any? The NYT Magazine has covered both Democratic and Republican candidates pretty evenly and fairly I think.</p>

<p>re immigrants- I think we should make it smoother for documented immigrants to come here- but I do worry about those with violent criminal backgrounds- I believe they are a big concern.</p>

<p>Mathmom:</p>

<p>A conservative take on Obama? Here is a column from David Brooks in last month’s NYT. Brooks is not a doctrinaie conservative, which is what makes his opinion, in my opinion, worth listening to. </p>

<p>December 18, 2007
Op-Ed Columnist
The Obama-Clinton Issue
By DAVID BROOKS
Hillary Clinton has been a much better senator than Barack Obama. She has been a serious, substantive lawmaker who has worked effectively across party lines. Obama has some accomplishments under his belt, but many of his colleagues believe that he has not bothered to master the intricacies of legislation or the maze of Senate rules. He talks about independence, but he has never quite bucked liberal orthodoxy or party discipline.</p>

<p>If Clinton were running against Obama for Senate, it would be easy to choose between them. </p>

<p>But they are running for president, and the presidency requires a different set of qualities. Presidents are buffeted by sycophancy, criticism and betrayal. They must improvise amid a thousand fluid crises. They’re isolated and also exposed, puffed up on the outside and hollowed out within. With the presidency, character and self-knowledge matter more than even experience. There are reasons to think that, among Democrats, Obama is better prepared for this madness. </p>

<p>Many of the best presidents in U.S. history had their character forged before they entered politics and carried to it a degree of self-possession and tranquillity that was impervious to the Sturm und Drang of White House life.</p>

<p>Obama is an inner-directed man in a profession filled with insecure outer-directed ones. He was forged by the process of discovering his own identity from the scattered facts of his childhood, a process that is described in finely observed detail in “Dreams From My Father.” Once he completed that process, he has been astonishingly constant.</p>

<p>Like most of the rival campaigns, I’ve been poring over press clippings from Obama’s past, looking for inconsistencies and flip-flops. There are virtually none. The unity speech he gives on the stump today is essentially the same speech that he gave at the Democratic convention in 2004, and it’s the same sort of speech he gave to Illinois legislators and Harvard Law students in the decades before that. He has a core, and was able to maintain his equipoise, for example, even as his campaign stagnated through the summer and fall.</p>

<p>Moreover, he has a worldview that precedes political positions. Some Americans (Republican or Democrat) believe that the country’s future can only be shaped through a remorseless civil war between the children of light and the children of darkness. Though Tom DeLay couldn’t deliver much for Republicans and Nancy Pelosi, so far, hasn’t been able to deliver much for Democrats, these warriors believe that what’s needed is more partisanship, more toughness and eventual conquest for their side.</p>

<p>But Obama does not ratchet up hostilities; he restrains them. He does not lash out at perceived enemies, but is aloof from them. In the course of this struggle to discover who he is, Obama clearly learned from the strain of pessimistic optimism that stretches back from Martin Luther King Jr. to Abraham Lincoln. This is a worldview that detests anger as a motivating force, that distrusts easy dichotomies between the parties of good and evil, believing instead that the crucial dichotomy runs between the good and bad within each individual.</p>

<p>Obama did not respond to his fatherlessness or his racial predicament with anger and rage, but as questions for investigation, conversation and synthesis. He approaches politics the same way. In her outstanding New Yorker profile, Larissa MacFarquhar notes that Obama does not perceive politics as a series of battles but as a series of systemic problems to be addressed. He pursues liberal ends in gradualist, temperamentally conservative ways.</p>

<p>Obama also has powers of observation that may mitigate his own inexperience and the isolating pressures of the White House. In his famous essay, “Political Judgment,” Isaiah Berlin writes that wise leaders don’t think abstractly. They use powers of close observation to integrate the vast shifting amalgam of data that constitute their own particular situation — their own and no other.</p>

<p>Obama demonstrated those powers in “Dreams From My Father” and still reveals glimpses of the ability to step outside his own ego and look at reality in uninhibited and honest ways. He still retains the capacity, also rare in presidents, of being able to sympathize with and grasp the motivations of his rivals. Even in his political memoir, “The Audacity of Hope,” he astutely observes that candidates are driven less by the desire for victory than by the raw fear of loss and humiliation.</p>

<p>What Bill Clinton said on “The Charlie Rose Show” is right: picking Obama is a roll of the dice. Sometimes he seems more concerned with process than results. But for Democrats, there’s a roll of the dice either way. The presidency is a bacterium. It finds the open wounds in the people who hold it. It infects them, and the resulting scandals infect the presidency and the country. The person with the fewest wounds usually does best in the White House, and is best for the country.</p>

<p>BigApple, we live on different coasts but do we live in the same America? I live in the one in which the last election showcased the two most WASPy WASPs imaginable. I do know Kerry’s Catholic, but please!</p>

<p>As a brown skin person, I can assure you that many in America are still suspect of us. Ignorance and lack of exposure is what I see. While many can relate to Obama, can the majority?</p>

<p>I’m starting to actually believe we’ll have another Republican even after 8 years of this!!</p>

<p>I think Iowa showed that many Americans will vote for a black man, and I suspect the same will happen tomorrow in New Hampshire–although I heard one commentator after the Iowas caucuses note that white voters find it easier to vote for a black candidate in states where there are few blacks than in states where there are many. The idea being, I guess, that for some white voters, familiarity (of the racial sort) breeds contempt. Still, even Jesse Jackson won primaries in the '80s and I think that has set the stage, in part, for Obama. And don’t forget Obama’s secret weapon in gathering the votes of white women: OPRAH!</p>

<p>To your other point, I don’t think we’ll end up with another Republican next year. Bush has proved so spectacularly unpopular --veoting childrens insurance, the war in Iraq, OKing waterboarding, inept attorney generals, Katrina – that I think its the Dems election to lose, not the GOPs to win.</p>

<p>Yes, it’s certainly the Dems to lose as it was 4 years ago when we did a good of it!</p>

<p>Time Magazine says the youth vote, which doubled in Iowa since the last primary, won the state for Obama. Let’s discuss the boomers in red states. The mud slinging has Obama being called a peppy Oreo to Blacks and a hard to identify with Black man to non coastal whites.</p>

<p>Maybe America is ready for a VP of color, but I for one will be shocked to see a Black pres now.</p>

<p>An immigrant’s perspective that is common.</p>

<p>Obama before the surge on Larry King:

Obama last Saturday in the debate:

hmmm … sounds like a little revisionist history taking place here.</p>

<p>More people will die (and have died) as a result of General Betrayus’ ethnic cleansing of Baghdad and the creation of 600,000+ refugees between July and October than would have died from all the political violence without the so-called surge combined.</p>

<p>Combined with the complete and overwhelming lack of political progress, the further shrinking of the electrical grid, and the billions more being squandered, I’d call that an abject failure.</p>

<p>"Let me state this right here and now, I am a military dependent, our base had a horrific accident where an enlisted child (13 yrs old) was hit at the cross walk(the immigrant only clipped the 11 yr old bro. and friend…sarcasm) by an illegal immigrant who was driving a car owned and registered to another illegal… the child was airlifted to a hospital, he has spent the past 14 mos. (happened 2 days prior to Turkey DaY 06) in rehab, a child who had a fuutre now can only write I love you and no longer speaks… "</p>

<p>My brother was hit by a lily-white Caucasian U.S. citizen cab driver on drugs, who had a license, and a cabbie’s license, working for a company owned by a lily-white Caucasian U.S. citizen. The cabbie had no insurance, the company went out of business two days after my brother lost both of his legs. The cabbie got probation, the cab company didn’t pay a dime. (Thank heavens cabs are now driven by Sikhs!)</p>

<p>Your point is?</p>

<p>"More people will die (and have died) as a result of General Betrayus’ ethnic cleansing of Baghdad and the creation of 600,000+ refugees between July and October than would have died from all the political violence without the so-called surge combined.</p>

<p>Combined with the complete and overwhelming lack of political progress, the further shrinking of the electrical grid, and the billions more being squandered, I’d call that an abject failure."</p>

<p>So, you are saying that Obama was right before he was wrong? I’d say that you better get in touch with the Obama campaign and set them straight with your “facts” before they embarrass themselves even more.</p>

<p>I can only hope that all this talk about “change” [what change??, from a Rep to Dem? like there’s another alternative there?] and “hope” will not come back and bite this new generation that is embracing blindly Obama’s rhetoric. I wonder how many of these young people that show up at his rallies will show up when it really counts, at the Nov voting booth?</p>

<p>It’s interesting that TIME reports that the doubling of young voters happened throughout the State, not just surrounding schools. Do we have a new wave of political young people?</p>

<p>mini: I am sorry about your brother and thank you for pointing that out. I am also sorry about that kid who was hurt in a car accident but the fact that someone was an illegal has nothing to do with it. </p>

<p>I never understood the tremendous opposition to the plan to require (not just grant, but require) illegals to have drivers licenses and car insurance. Sounds like a good plan to me.</p>

<p>Thanks for the article BigAppleDaddy, I’ve always like David Brooks, even on my most knee-jerk liberal days. :)</p>