<p>I hope that none of you who are decrying “snitching” are at a college like UVa or others that have a strict honor code. Most of them have an honor code that reads something like “I will not lie, cheat or steal or suffer those who do.”
By recollection, about 3-4 years ago a UVa prof ran a bunch of essays through turnitin.com and found a high level of plagiarism (including essays that had been turned in years before). The result was that dozens (perhaps as many 100) had their diplomas revoked. How’s that for a punishment that approximates this behavior.</p>
<p>Assuming, for arguments sake, that the OP has actual proof of this falsification by his/her “friend” then s/he can turn the cheater in or not as his/her conscience directs. Whether s/he turns the cheater in or not the violation of the terms of the application is still immoral.</p>
<p>A few months ago the father of a student became aware that the student had submitted forged high school grades to various colleges. I don’t recall exactly what he had, but his proof was fairly ironclad. Would that be enough for those of you who believe that “snitching” (but not cheating) is immoral to actually turn them in? I doubt it.</p>
<p>It is absolutely amazing to me how many CCers will justify cheating on applications on the grounds that “everyone does it” or “the admission system is unfair”.</p>
<p>Well I somewhat agree with this. Even though the person made a really bad decision, at this point if she is rescinded from Yale she probably does not have enough time to switch to a different four year college. Honestly, her future might be ruined. And even though it’s her fault if that happens, not the snitch’s, it seems like a punishment too severe for the crime.It wouldn’t be so bad if it were earlier in the admissions cycle. That’s why i think in a practical sense she shouldn’t be turned in.</p>
<p>It’s funny how there’s a stigma associated with snitchers. Like, people say “don’t snitch unless you want to get beat up after school and lose the respect of your friends and family.” It’s kind of like a lame form of peer pressure.</p>
<p>“Like, people say “don’t snitch unless you want to get beat up after school and lose the respect of your friends and family.” It’s kind of like a lame form of peer pressure.”</p>
<p>amb, some people would consider that a lame form of extortion.</p>
<p>“Honestly, her future might be ruined. And even though it’s her fault if that happens, not the snitch’s, it seems like a punishment too severe for the crime.It wouldn’t be so bad if it were earlier in the admissions cycle. That’s why i think in a practical sense she shouldn’t be turned in.”</p>
<p>Oh no! Her life might be ruined! Maybe she should have thought of that BEFORE she agreed to write the essay herself and then paid someone to do it. Tripping on something and spilling wine on someone’s dress is a mistake. Accidentally blurting out some pent-up comment is a mistake.</p>
<p>Agreeing not to misrepresent yourself and then doing it over the process of several months is NOT a mistake. Too bad for her. As I said, don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. Take responsibility for your actions, or have others force it on you.</p>
<p>I would respect someone who’s brave enough to risk losing his/her friends to do the right thing. it may not sound like a very smart thing to do, but it’s admirable.</p>
<p>Those who tolerate cheating on applications may also have engaged in it themselves, and feel threatened and defensive by the prospect of a widespread investigation that might uncover their own fraud.</p>
This philosophy is so perverse and incoherent, yet endemic among cc kids. When you so rigidly view getting into college as an end in itself, you begin to sympathize with the idea that, in this college frenzy, the ends justify the means, which is clearly inferred from your post. </p>
<p>OH SURE, you think she should be punished–but not too hard–because college admissions are so unfair:rolleyes:. We wouldn’t want to “ruin her future”, even though her crime was thoroughly premeditated after signing two statements. Give me a break. What preposterous BS. She deserves to be rescinded. Whether or not that “destorys her life” (ridiculous hyperbole) is her problem.</p>
<p>That very fact that you object to the idea of her getting just punishment (rescintion) is a testament to the fact that you (and others) tacitly condone her actions.</p>
<p>This is in fact some of the most ridicilous logic I have ever heard. Those who think that “snitching is wrong” are being so incredibly selfish. Get over yourself and learn that doing the right thing isn’t about how it will benefit you or your friends. As corny as it sounds, you should genuinely care about making the world a better and just place. It should not matter that you might lose a couple friends over telling the truth. If your friends are the type who would submit a bogus essay to the admission office, you just might need some new friends. </p>
<p>You are missing the big picture.
THE GIRL CHEATED.
And not just on some math quiz in the 10th grade. She cheated in her application to YALE. There is some kid out there, dying to attend Yale, with a rejection letter in his hand while this girl packs her stuff to move to New Haven in the fall. And to make matters worse, this kind of thing probably happens often. So even though you think it may not make a difference to “snitch” on this girl because no one will be able to take her place so late in the admission process…Who cares?
The fact that she won’t be on that campus is enough justice. </p>
<p>And yea, maybe you’re right; her essay isn’t what got her in. Well guess what? Despite her great grades and excellent EC’s, shes a liar. And the admission’s office should know that the girl blatantly lied to them. </p>
<p>"destroying someone’s future over such a small (yet immoral) matter is NOT morally right. "</p>
<p>This girl destroyed her own future. And if she had actually been destined for a great future, she will get through something like this. She’ll accept the fact that she cheated and that it was wrong. She’ll attend a state school next year and get over it. But, there is no reason for her to have an Ivy league education that she does not deserve. There are a ton of kids out there who deserve it and get rejected and they end up just fine.</p>
<p>People who say snitching is wrong are the ones that do immoral/wrong things.
The same type of jury that’d let a rapist back onto the streets because they’d do it too.</p>
<p>The girl broke the code, got into somewhere where she didn’t deserve to get in, and took somebody else’s spot.
This is a big deal.</p>
<p>SAT Language and literature-writing are quite two different things. In fact, if you were to carry out some cognitive science experiments and map activity around the Sylvian Fissure in the brain, I hypothesise that you would probably find that SAT Language test-taking lights up more of the general reasoning areas (though perhaps the ones closer to the Sylvian Fissure) than writing an essay in general would. (This is not necessarily a “better thing” – for example, people who never had a full-fledged first language [feral children, deaf people prevented from learning sign language during childhood because of the misinformed belief that ‘forced immersion’ works], have to use their general reasoning abilities and general associative memory to communicate – over extremely long distances within the brain, handicapped by a language centre that was never developed. You get sentences like ‘car orange enter in’, because of the reliance on pure general reasoning.) </p>
<p>I would also hazard the guess that writing an SAT essay may make extensive use of Broca’s area, but not as much real creative content, and not as much drawn from the temporal lobe and hippocampus (which Wernicke’s would process). But a college essay would invoke heavy activity around those areas. Just saying.</p>
<p>Hm, yeah like the vast majority of normal high school kids do immoral/wrong things because they don’t tell on their friends that they cheated? Fact is, the OP isn’t going to tell, so don’t try to force her to do it. And this is part of the reason why CC gets such a bad rep, they love comparing cheating to murder and rape (which IS what you are doing regardless of whatever perverse logic you’re going to use to defend it). As for me, I’m done with this thread, but don’t start bringing the integrity of others into question who have never cheated in their life.</p>
<p>“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”</p>
<p>If it’s vastly out of context (which I’m sure happens more than people would like to think) in terms of voice, then they’ll certainly notice. But adcoms are looking for the positives to an application, to find who the person is, not to accuse them of cheating. I’m sure it gets through the system fairly often. It’s sad, though–and why would you want someone else creating a literary portrait of you?</p>
<p>I have to say…there is a story involving essays, and it involves me helping someone 2 years ago (I was a sophomore at the time) for free. Anyone who wants to know more details would have to PM me.</p>
<p>Cheating is an antisocial act. And among the categories of moral violations it falls under, sometime it shares at least one with murder and rape, if it’s the kind where you steal off a teacher’s desk (violation of individual rights). Probably doesn’t apply in this case, since plagiarism is just fraud and deception, and character deception at that, but still, it’s not crazy to compare cheating to murder and rape. </p>
<p>But note the difference between: </p>
<p>Lying to a client about your advantages so that he will patronise you over some other broker. </p>
<p>Embezzling from that client. </p>
<p>One falls into at least one category of moral violation that murder and rape share; the other does not (although the client is still investing money, any unjust loss will be by incompetence, not malice).</p>
<p>It is crazy to compare it to murder and rape because it’s not a physical action. It’s a purely white-collar crime whereas murder and rape are of the blue-collar kind.</p>