@homerdog - Kenyon offers full and half tuition scholarships, as well as other departmental scholarships that range from $10K to $25K. No idea how many they dole out, but they’re there. Grinnell also offers full tuition scholarships.
I ask myself @northwesty’s hypothetical to @websensation about what it might have taken for my daughter to walk away from a Stanford (or fill-in-the-blank perfect fit but full/nearly full pay education). The answer is that D might have not have turned down a full ride Stamps at UChicago (but not a Stamps at USC, as USC was not a good fit), the McCabe at Swarthmore, the Jefferson at UVA, or the AB Duke/Robertson. Since those weren’t options, she didn’t even visit any of those schools except U.Chicago. TBH, we were almost relieved that she didn’t get the Davidson Belk (she was an alternate) – it might have seemed too hard to pass up, but Davidson would not have been a good fit.
If you are managing to save enough over 18 years for a single child to be a full pay for a private undergrad, you are very lucky. If you are managing to save enough for two children to be full pay for private undergrad, you are even more fortunate. Most families earning $200,000 a year cannot save that much and simply dismissing it as being spendthrift is not fair to most of them. They aren’t getting $50,000 or $100,000 end of year bonuses. They aren’t taking $30,000/year vacations. Sure, maybe they aren’t living quite as cheaply as they could, but they also are driving old cars and taking relatively inexpensive vacations and they ARE saving for college – just not the enormous amount that is now necessary for private universities.
I agree there are some spendthrifts who save very little for their kids’ college who would be spendthrifts whether they earned half that or 5x what they do. But the Williams College breakdown was revealing. There are more than 3 times as many students with family incomes from the 1 - 5% than from the 6 - 10%. And I think it is extremely unlikely that the students with HHI in the top 5% who apply are three times more likely to be brilliant and accomplished students than students from families with HHI in the 5 - 10%. Those colleges are concerned with yield and the richer the family is, the more likely that family will attend. I suspect if anyone looked closely they would find that if you leave out recruited athletes and URM and just compared the admit rate of the remaining students with HHI from the top 1% and top 5% versus those with HHI from the top 5% - 10%, the admit rate for students with similar stats is higher for those in the top 1% and top 5%. It is very possible that the donut hole goes both ways – that the universities believe those students are less likely to attend than those in the top 5% and admit them at a lower rate, even as their stats are the same (or even better).
@observer12 I’m sure the cost of living affects if a family with $200,000 income can save enough for a private college. Some cities have very high living expenses.
“There are more than 3 times as many students with family incomes from the 1 - 5% than from the 6 - 10%.”
“Those colleges are concerned with yield and the richer the family is, the more likely that family will attend. I suspect if anyone looked closely they would find that if you leave out recruited athletes and URM and just compared the admit rate of the remaining students with HHI from the top 1% and top 5% versus those with HHI from the top 5% - 10%, the admit rate for students with similar stats is higher for those in the top 1% and top 5%.”
Observer – very true. And the tool that schools like Williams use to hone in on the high household incomes is…say it with me…EARLY DECISION!! Williams fills 47% of its total seats via early decision. Williams dangles higher admit rates in ED in exchange for close to 100% yield on offers.
ED is pretty much limited to two kinds of folks. Those who are willing/able/resigned to full pay in cash. And those who know they’ll get enough fin aid to make it work.
If you are a donut-holer, you probably want to consider shopping your smart kid’s high stats around to a bunch of schools and see what offers you get. Can’t do that if you apply ED.
The donut hole kids are therefore less likely (all things being equal) to get admitted to Williams. And less likely to enroll, since they will have sought out and received the good merit money deals.
@northwesty the truth is that we want our S19 to make his decision in the spring of his senior year so he’s not going to send an ED app anywhere. He’s young for the grade and undecided on major and he will need those six extra months to make a decision. Some of us are not willing to play the ED game but we know what we are getting ourselves into. ED is awesome for the schools. Not so much has for the kids.
I think some schools talk out of both sides of their mouths. We’ve been to info sessions where the admissions director tells the kids that applying ED is a big deal and you only do it if you are 100 percent sure. Then, those same schools take 50 percent of their kids ED. They know what they are doing. Many families make their kids go ED somewhere not because the student is sure it’s their number one choice but because they want the ED advantage. That can backfire.
“ED is awesome for the schools. Not so much has for the kids.”
“They know what they are doing. Many families make their kids go ED somewhere not because the student is sure it’s their number one choice but because they want the ED advantage.”
Yup.
It is not a coincidence that Williams-type schools have almost the same number of students from the top 5% (42%) and as they do from ED (47%). Since ED is where most of those wealthier kids come from.
Legacy admission tips (which are often combined with ED at many schools) have a very similar SES/full pay impact as ED.
Cost of attendance was $68,430 for 2016-2017.
53% received financial aid grants, average amount $42,988.
So the average price paid by financial aid grant recipients was $25,442.
However, considering the 47% who pay list price as well as the 53% who got financial aid grants, the average price paid by all students was $45,646. The average amount received by Williams is slightly higher, since some of the money came from Pell grants (19% of students) and probably outside scholarships and grants, rather than Williams’ financial aid grant money.
Since there has been some discussion of Williams ED, here is a link with info about ED admission for the class of 2021, including the percentage of first generation and low income students. Williams has chosen not to post this info for the class of 2022,so this is the most recent ED data available:
Gator88ne , i have to say looking at the Facebook sites for class of uf22 made my son believe that EVERY person 98% girls appear to be shallow, party hungry, tailgaters. And that made him feel like maybe these aren’t his peers. It has made me so happy I’ve had boys. Lol
Thanks for your input, we plan on doing Afternoon with Honors on March 23rd so maybe that smaller encounter will sway him one way or the other. Retoured UCF last week and mostly just their honors college . Really felt like he’d be comfortable there. Maybe a similar thing at UF will make themore appealing to him.
I have assured him that the 1000 people who have made a Facebook post are social media people and it’s a small percentage of the class of 22 represented.
@PurpleTitan the way it’s worded, it sounds like it was $16,000 for four years! It says “average cost is $16,000 for a Williams education”. Who knows. I figured that $16,000 had to be the average amount paid not including loans. Maybe the loans are the difference between $16k and the $25k number you calculated. And all of these numbers have to be for one year.
Can a family with $200,000 income live and spend like a family with a $100,000 income, saving perhaps $60,000 per year of after tax money? $100,000 income is still above (often well above) the median income in most metro areas, so it should not be poverty-level living.
If living on a $100,000 income is too “poor”, then how about a family with a $200,000 income living like a family with a $150,000 income and saving around $30,000 per year after taxes?
We’re not 1%'er but maybe 5%'er but lives in SoCal so everything is expensive. I told D1 when she was in middle school that I will send her to Stanford or to any Ivy if she graduates Val in HS and accepted to those school. I said that because I thought she didn’t have what it takes to accomplish those. Well, she graduated Val in HS and was accepted to an Ivy (waitlisted at Stanford). I honored my word and sent her to the Ivy full pay. Turned down Presidential scholarship at USC and in-state tuition plus Regents scholarship at UCLA/Berkeley. She’s graduating this Spring and it was easier than we thought financially.
Not sure if I can do that again with D2. She’s only in 7th grade and by the time she’s college age, full pay is probably 100K. But then maybe we’ll receive financial aid?