Your assumptions are way wrong. Again, this is not what OP asked.
OP was not discussing money. I brought up money bc it is one reason you don’t see the “i gave up duke for Yale discussion” on here. That discussion comes with assumptions and judgements about having and spending the $ that no one needs/wants.
My 2 cents anyway…
The OP did ask about whether you’d pick something that was free vs. something that was very expensive.
I think that is a question about money, no?
Would depend on major.
Someone premed or going to be a PA/NP I doubt I would other majors maybe so.
@northwesty - You want financial info? It’s anonymous, so fine, I do not care. Our total income this past year, before taking out any taxes/SS/union dues/health insurance/etc., was just under $220,000. We are in a NY suburb, so our annual property taxes on our 1/4 acre property with 4-bedroom house cost $15,000.
Grandparents were three public school teachers and an insurance salesman prior to retirement- solidly upper middle class.
Deceased 8 great-grandparents all were not college educated- a blue collar worker for a defense contractor, a secretary, a plumber, a barber, a truck company worker, and stay-home moms.
Many of the privates use their own methodology to calculate EFC. If a family has a moderate income but a lot of equity in their house, they may be “full pay” but have to take out loans or a HELOC.
Hey, no need to blame me, the OP. lol
I don’t mind revealing the following info though.
I don’t know what top 1% is or whether I belong to this group (I definitely don’t make $500K gross per year) because you can make a lot of money in salary and have nothing saved up. But I, born to a relatively low level income family, have only one kid, and going full pay at Stanford won’t affect my life style significantly because I live frugally on daily basis and I don’t get a kick out of driving nice cars (I drive $25K car fully paid) or living in an expensive house which I sort of do (but most houses in nice areas in Southern CA are sort of expensive), and I saved up around $300K in my kid’s name over the years. I told him we can buy a small apartment in his name, put the money in stock account (it was already in stock acct) or pay for his Stanford education. I explained the opportunity cost etc but he chose to use money for Stanford. Now, I have no idea whether my kid truly understood everything I told him or whether he realized how hard it actually is to save $300K in real life (because it took me 7 years after grad school to save the first $300K), but he cannot blame me later for not having explained to him these things. lol Anyway, I have pretty much no debt because I hate owing anyone anything. I also don’t know if my kid is not mistaking prestige for the fit but my kid stayed at and knows enough about Stanford to know how it will suit him etc. Having said this, I myself would have found some way to be happy with whatever his choice but my wife was pretty much set on sending him to Stanford after he surprisingly got in.
Even though I have one kid only, I am glad I am done with his high school days and off he goes to whatever next step he must go to. But for me, I am not sending my kid to Stanford just for him to get a good job; I am sending him so that he can first hopefully enjoy his 4 years and then have the best chance to pursue what would make him happy and satisfied, whether it’s a great paying job or just enough to cover his expenses. I also want him to use his education and skills to serve others if possible.
P.S. Come to think of it, perhaps there is an emotion-leaden reason for what I am doing: I had surprisingly gotten into one of top law schools in CA after college which I wanted to go but I unexpectedly received an economic scholarship that covered tuition from a top 30 law school near my parents’ house. I badly wanted to go to the CA law school to major in entertainment law but because of my parents’ financial circumstances, I chose to live with my parents and drive to the law school located near them. I want my kid to be able to go to his number one choice so he doesn’t have to second guess himself like I do sometimes, although I turned out pretty successful.
Kid #1 was very talented, very intellectual, a wonderful writer, but with a less-than-perfect high school record that was further muddled by changing schools in 11th grade. We didn’t hunt for merit for her, and no one offered it but Pitt. She was accepted at the University of Chicago, which we and some teachers who knew her well thought was perfect for her.
Two years later, Kid #2 came along. Kid #2 was probably less talented, less intellectual, but he worked harder than his sister at things he didn’t care for, and he had a much shinier high school record – single digit class rank, meaningful, consistent ECs, and somewhat higher test scores (2330/2400 on then SAT I). He had visited his sister at Chicago twice and was completely in love with it, much more than she was. He said from the outset that he had four first-choice colleges: HYS and Chicago. He wasn’t accepted at any of HYS; he was accepted at Chicago. Meanwhile, he had applied rolling admission to Michigan, had been accepted, and ultimately was offered a full-tuition merit scholarship there, which we hadn’t expected. He had never visited Michigan. At the time, he was very aware that a nephew of our closest friends, who had gone to Michigan the year before on the same scholarship, had come close to drinking his way out of college his freshman year.
It was really difficult to tell him that because he had worked harder than his sister and gotten better grades, she got to go to the college he loved and he would have to go someplace he didn’t love. Especially when he had just gotten kicked in the face by the colleges many of his relatives had attended. He knew we would have moved heaven and earth to pay for HYS, and we had never adopted a look-for-merit strategy. Both of our families had sent us to Yale at full pay when either of us could have gone elsewhere for much less (but the difference back then was waaaaay less); elite education was a family value. (No one thought Michigan was less than elite, but we considered Chicago maybe more like a 1.2 liter.) My family was helping with college costs, and they were willing to shoulder a meaningful part of the cost of Chicago for him.
My son was very grateful. He loved Chicago, even more than he thought he would. He essentially never left. He married one of his classmates, got a graduate degree there, too, and works on campus. (At this point, I think he has maybe spent too long in the UChicago bubble, and I wish he would try working elsewhere. But he has no plans to do that.) Luckily, we were able to afford it without awful difficulty or any family rancor. It was great having both kids at the same college for two years, and they are much closer for that. I’m glad things worked out, and the University of Chicago is a sensational institution. But the University of Michigan is also a sensational institution, and there was no rational basis on which it was worth paying close to $200,000 more for Chicago.
@JHS ^^^that…”there was no rational basis on which it was worth paying close to $200,000 more for Chicago.”
Is a rationale which may ring true for me when I climb off my fence of indecision.
86 OP/Web --
So it is one kid and $300k in the kid’s college fund. Full pay Stanford vs. free at, say, USC (top 25).
I’d let the kid pick. Since the money really is no object.
Reasons to pick USC would be:
- The kid just loves USC more than Stanford. Song Girls!!
- The kid wants to save the $300k to use for law/biz/med school. Other kinds of grad school really don't cost very much, so nothing much is gained by keeping the powder dry.
- The kid wants to save the $300k to establish college funds for your not-yet-born grandkids.
- Bigger fish, smaller pond. See Malcolm Gladwell or Frank Bruni.
Being a top shelf presidential scholar at USC is very prestigious and comes with lots of special opportunities. So that could be better than being one of many Stanford kids (half of whom will be in the bottom half of their class). Bruni, for example, turned down Yale for a Morehead Scholarship (which is quite special beyond the dollars) at UNC.
Otherwise, Stanford.
If only $100k in the bank, USC.
I’m sort of uncomfortable with the notion that full freight private payers are irrational and don’t know the value of a buck and folks who take the merit award are engaging in 100% analytical and logical thinking.
I took very brief maternity leaves after the birth of my kids. I never took a “mommy track” assignment, even though my company could have accommodated me, even all those years ago before we had flex time and working from home. I never turned down a promotion because I knew it would mean extra responsibility and work, and I did all the things that are supposed to be so taxing for working parents- the 7 am meetings, the conferences in inconvenient places, etc.
I have friends and colleagues and family members who did none of those things. They decided (somewhat irrationally) that they could resume their careers 15 years later at the same level and same compensation that they left- and that has not proven to be true for any of them. Some of them downshifted, some quit altogether, some decided that a decade plus years of organizing bake sales and the book drive would be compelling entries on their resumes- again, that has not proven to be the case.
But from an economic perspective- although I’m not a member of the 1%, my spouse and I lived on one income and banked the second for college. That gave us enormous flexibility when college rolled around. Yes- we’ve been lucky. Healthy, only one lengthy period of unemployment, no divorce, no special needs kid which would have required giving up one of the jobs. So yes lucky- but also rational. I’m not a math genius but did learn how to calculate net present value in business school. And as I tried to explain to some of my non-MBA friends- the opportunity cost of quitting a job isn’t just what you are giving up in your current salary. It’s the compounded increases of every raise and promotion for 15 years, plus the financial cushion of your company 401K matches, two health care plans, etc.
To me, being full pay even with kids who could have gotten attractive merit offers elsewhere was rational. It was why we had saved the money in the first place; we’d had a plan both professional/career and financial and we executed against the plan. We had done a careful analysis of what it would cost, and we lived equally carefully from 0-18 of our kids lives to make sure we could hit our targets.
So sure, criticize the full payers for not understanding the value of a buck and spending 200K or 150K “extra” that they don’t need to spend. But there are also a lot of people who made short term decisions about the EARNINGS piece of the equation- no overtime, no travel, no dealing with a boss who is an arrogant SOB but hands out annual bonuses like they are candy (I had one of those. Hated him 364 days a year but it was worth it). Or deciding that you can go back to work once the kids are in HS and learning that a part-time yoga instructor at the community center does not make as much money as a risk analyst at a commercial bank, or a tobacco litigator at a mid-sized law firm. THAT’s irrational.
It is hard to look at spending options that other people have and not be envious- or at least think that they are pompous jerks for paying for something that you can’t afford (and believe me, I feel that all the time). But something generated that cash. And people make decisions-- sometimes rationally and sometimes not.
Is there anyone in America who doesn’t know that a neurosurgeon makes more money than a nursery school teacher? And has longer hours? Spent longer in school and apprenticeship/supervised residencies? And gets woken up routinely at 3 am for a patient emergency???
If, perchance the $300k was in stocks in a 529 plan, it would have to be used for education to avoid a penalty. And having that much in the student’s name , particularly for PROFILE schools, which looks at a higher % of the assets in the kid’s name than the parents, would help explain why this student is a full pay student.
We have good friends whose daughter turned down a full-ride to Williams on a track scholarship for 4 years full-pay at Georgetown and later the London School of Economics. She’s now an aerobics instructor in Dubai. (I’m not kidding).
^Williams does not give any athletic scholarships. Williams gives only need-based aid. No exceptions.
@SouthernHope: Does Williams College give athletic scholarships ? I thought that athletic scholarships were forbidden for division III schools. Could it have been need based aid ?
@northwesty Not Univ of Southern CA but Univ of South Carolina Honors (near full ride, about $10K per year), so it was Stanford at $70K per year vs UCLA/Berkeley at $45K per year vs. Univ of South Carolina at $10K to $12K per year choice. I don’t believe my kid’s stats were so good to receive a free tuition from Univ of Southern CA; he was just NMF, 33 ACT and 3.9 ish GPA, very good but not awesome hard stats.
@SouthernHope Williams doesn’t give athletic scholarships, so that’s not true.
@jym626 Frankly, both my current income and more than average assets prevented me from receiving more than several thousand dollars financial aid per year. I went through all estimates, FAPSA and CSS stuff. Not worth filling out the paper work for us. lol Also, I would have been ecstatic to receive even $10K per year financial grant just to make me feel I am getting something free but no such luck. lol
that’s a good question on Williams…this was 15 years ago…but was it the same then? here’s what I remember…she had a tremendous financial offer from Williams…and she was asked to be on their track team…but you all are likely right that it wasn’t for track. In any case, she was/is one smart girl.
Well said, @blossom.
I liken it to the 3 little pigs. One may build their house out of straw, one of sticks and one of bricks. Come time for the storm, the one with the brick house has the best security.
We have scrimped and saved and lived below our means for as long as I can remember. Maximized savings, 401Ks, etc. We weren’t cheap, but we used our money wisely. Like @blossom, I took a very brief maternity leave (and worked up until the day I delivered) and went right back to work. We have no extended family in town, so all childcare costs were on us.
Education is a high priority in our family. We promised our kids that we would fund their undergraduate education, and by starting saving early(as in well before kids) and thanks to good investing by DH and the benefits of compound interest, we had a house built out of brick, not straw or sticks. For us, the savings meant financial freedom- it meant options. It meant choices. Older s turned down the full tuition/fullride (I forget) and stipend for the virtual full pay school, and we had the funds set aside for it. It was our promise to him and we kept it. Younger s got some very sweet scholarships at the school he chose, which is a perfectly fine private. It cost us very little for him to attend. But it was his choice. Again- the freedom of choice. Both graduated from the schools they felt were the best fit for them and left college debt free. And we had no loans to deal with. Win-win-win.
We to were fortunate that we were not faced with any huge financial challenges, and where there was a period of unemployment, we lived on one salary.
My car is 13 years old, but it is a comfortable car. I may replace it soon, I may not. How we save and spend has worked for us. We are not in the 1% but we work hard and saved for those rainy days.
I think every HS’er should be required to take a class in finance/savings/money management. But since they aren’t, we should take it upon ourselves to teach that to our kids. It is a great gift to teach/give them.