<p>Imagine you are on an admissions committee for a top grad school. You have to decide between two students desiring a PhD in science/engineering. One student is very intelligent and just breezed by all his classes making good grades with minimal effort. The other student is not so bright and worked his ass off to get the same grades.<br>
These two students are equal in every other respect (GPA, GRE, recs, etc). Who would you pick? You know the less intelligent student will work like mad, but you can’t say for sure the very intelligent one won’t. Do you take the risk and accept the brighter one to try and nurture his potential, or do you take the dumber one who you know will always try his hardest?</p>
<p>I’m a firm believer that knowledge is 90% effort, 10% natural. I know that I don’t have every last bit of the natural part, but I do more than my absolute best at everything I do, and therefore get the same grades as the students who don’t have to work quite as hard.</p>
<p>Students who have the full 10% sometimes take advantage of it. And no matter how naturally smart you are, you won’t do well unless you do the work. </p>
<p>So I think its pretty obvious, I’d take the hard worker.</p>
<p>This is an interesting question because adcoms make this decision every time they weigh grades against GRE scores. Preparation certainly helps with the GRE, but those with natural intelligence have a significant advantage.</p>
<p>For example, I’m a verbal person who isn’t very good at math. I got A’s in math because I worked really hard, spending more time on the homework than most people. But I did poorly on the math GRE because of the time limit – when strange puzzles appeared, it took me too long to understand how to solve them. Preparation helped me to get a reasonable score, but ultimately I was at a disadvantage. Meanwhile, I aced the verbal without studying.</p>
<p>So what do you do with someone who gets A’s in math but does mediocre on the GRE? Universities choose smart people over hard workers every time they reject candidates based on those scores – especially if their grades prove that they can succeed in math.</p>
<p>I believe grades are basically an indicator of how hard someone works. Maybe the smart people could coast by in high school, but in college it often comes down to whether or not you did the reading – whether or not you went to class – how hard you studied… I know plenty of smart people who did poorly in college because they didn’t study. So, like the previous poster, I feel that grades are 90% effort.</p>
<p>But the GRE is a different story – maybe more like 50/50. Preparation will help you, but some people are just going to be a lot better at solving those puzzles in 30 seconds or less.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t know who to take since I wouldn’t be able to tell on paper.</p>
<p>Oh c’mon, UCLAri, this is an <em>imaginative</em> exercise. I know you can handle this.</p>
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<p>This is not an interesting question. This is an ridiculous question because it just doesn’t make any sense.</p>
<p>How would adcoms be able to tell which student is “naturally smart” as opposed to “hardworking” when::</p>
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<p>If GPA and GRE are equal, I don’t see how the adcom could compare “intelligence” between the two students in any “objective” manner. </p>
<p>Could you clarify, Addwit?</p>
<p>I agree with UCLAri, that’s part of the chance adcoms take when deciding which students to admit. I’m assuming that they find students that are in the middle of very hard workers and have a natural talent for learning, but it also depends on the school. However, I would admit the person with the natural talent first, because just because they didn’t have to try hard during undergrad doesn’t mean they aren’t hard workers when necessary. During undergrad, as long as I pay attention in class, ask questions for things I didn’t understand and take notes, I would just have to read over my notes once again before a test. I retain material really well especially if I’m interested in it.</p>
<p>Ughhhhh… dobby, it’s just a question! I didn’t design it to be realistic!</p>
<p>But the way you phrase your “question” disqualifies it as a question. Your original post, as it stands, is a series of nonsensical statements.</p>
<p>I’m sorry about that, dobby. I’m sure you can use your superior intelligence to figure out what I meant to ask.</p>
<p>I think we all know now who was head of the debate club back in high school…</p>
<p>Addwit isn’t saying that adcoms can tell who is the hardest worker. S/he is saying, hypothetically, what if they could tell? If students had identical records, would you rather have the student who achieved easily or the one who worked hard for that record? It’s a question about who would be the best grad student, not about the actual admission process.</p>
<p>But I think y’all are just being difficult on purpose.</p>
<p>I would go with the intellectually gifted over the hard worker!</p>
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<p>But they CAN’T tell!</p>
<p>Why is that so? Because::</p>
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<p>dobby, obviously you’re just trying to be annoying. Please stop. Also, please look up the meaning up “hypothetically”.</p>
<p>You can’t accurately judge how smart someone is based on their GRE scores. It is not an IQ test. I barely broke 600 on SAT math but scored a 750 on GRE math. Based on my SAT scores and sub 3.0 HS grade you wouldn’t think anything of me but I was also a huge slacker in HS. </p>
<p>If somehow you did know who was smarter or hardworking im sure most committees would choose the person in the middle. A smart person who isn’t hard working won’t do you any good if he drops out. They want dedication above all else Im sure.</p>
<p>Addwit,</p>
<p>I understand that it’s a “hypothetical” situation. However, you set up the parameters of your hypothetical where nobody could even tell which one worked harder! Unless of course you were to say…have the personal statement reflect one or the other…;)</p>
<p>Whoa whoa whoa, VT, there is no ‘middle’ here in this <em>hypothetical</em> situation. You’ve got to pick the very intelligent or the less intelligent person. Again, there’s nothing saying the very intelligent person WON’T work hard, you just KNOW the less intelligent person will.</p>
<p>Ok, UCLAri, let me add to the parameters. You, the adcom, are a psychic that can tell the past and present, therefore allowing you to know how hard these two candidates have worked during their college careers. Happy?</p>
<p>Yes. :D</p>
<p>By the way, get over it. I was just ribbing you in the first place. </p>
<p>I would flip a coin. Both have an equal chance of succeeding.</p>