“Busdriver - I wasn’t saying that I expect everyone to befriend the busboy (or for every busboy to befriend the diners). I was more making the point that their lives are invisible to one another.”
Ah, okay. I thought you were making the point that people were just invisible to the wealthier group.
That’s close enough. 
I never understood the point of defining the rich, the top 1% etc. I cannot even imagine having such conversation with my co-workers. What exactly is the purpose? But if these definitions are really meaningful, Financial Samurai blog has fair amount of information analyzed by age group, by income, by wealth amount, by lifestyle and saving rates etc (google “The Top 1% Net Worth Amounts By Age”).
As I commented earlier, I (and many friends) came to the US many years ago with literally nothing but a shirt on my shoulders, no assets, no possessions, no language, no degrees, no connections, basically absolutely nothing but a family to support. All our furniture was picked from curbs on garage collection days, all our clothing was hand-me-down, all our baby supplies were donated by the local community center, all food was bought at deep discounts. But I never ever felt wealthier and more fortunate in my entire life. When I made the first $1,000, I vividly remember window-shopping with a baby in a stroller, and thinking that I could afford every single “luxury” item I saw in those store windows (even though I would only be able to pay for one item, and then would be unable to pay any bills or buy any food tomorrow).
Virtually all of us are in the top 1% today, and I won’t lie that I am not happy about it. But we still watch our spending very closely, because we know what it’s like to have nothing. It would be very difficult, probably impossible for me today to go back to those days and start it all over - I just don’t have the same energy, strength and determination. And being able to afford nice things later in life surely sets different expectations, which are very difficult to ignore or overcome. But the only important things that the money can buy are financial freedom to make the right life choices, being able to sustain health or other unexpected crisis, supporting decent living standards for our parents who can no longer support themselves, living a lifestyle that is reasonably safe from crime or other dangers, being able to support good causes we believe in, and to never become a burden our kids cannot afford. Everything else is rubbish, but sometimes we understand this too late. Both kids understand this very well, so I am not worried for them.
“I cannot even imagine having such conversation with my co-workers”
Me neither. There is a reason Mr. is hesitant about getting a Tesla X.
Let me add one thing to my definition of “rich.” Rich = being able to buy a $XM house and being able to pay taxes and maintenance on it “for life.” (Did I tell you that the county sent us yet a second reminder that the property tax is due - lol.). Many lottery winners were rushing to use their one-time windfall on buying RE that they were not able to afford because of the ongoing financial obligations that they never considered! Same with fancy cars - tabs and insurance can be co$$tly.
There are so many 1 percenters in CC.
Only 1 percent of the people are supposed to be in the top 1 percent. 
Of course there are lots of 1 percenters on CC. No surprise. It’s self-selected. The average person isn’t picking a college on any criteria other than “what is what we can afford that will be immediately employable afterwards.” Likewise the average person couldn’t name the Ivies and gets their knowledge from either what schools are nearby or what sports they watch on TV.
I’m joking.
I’ll admit to driving the CC % down. I’m a 99%er.
But really, I still have plenty to be happy. So maybe I am rich.
I work with a 1%er every single day. Just he and I. . He has a ton of stuff. He can afford anything he wants. He is never, ever happy. Always complaining. Not rich in my eyes.
I think part of the reason so many Americans in the top, say, 10 % of the income distribution classify themselves as “middle class” has to do with the old image of the American dream as a house, picket fence, dog, etc. That “dream” wasn’t associated with wealth; it was an aspiration that was supposed to be achievable for a sizable chunk of people by a certain point in their lives. That model was always an ideal, and has become increasingly inaccessible to a majority of people, but it still shapes our picture of the average American lifestyle.
For people who have grown up with that image, it can be hard to see yourself as wealthy as long as you aren’t living a life that is radically different from the “norm” of the American dream, even if you are objectively doing much better than even that generous model envisions. I look at my own parents. When I was growing up, we were what I think most people would define as middle-class – although even then, my guess is we were above the median income for even our high-priced area for much of my childhood. My father was a public school teacher, my mother worked part time. We lived in a 3-BR, 1.5 bath split-level. We ate out at family restaurants maybe once a month or so, took an occasional trip to a “big ticket” event like a baseball game. We had yearly vacations to places like Niagra Falls, Cape Cod, or Disney, which we would invariably drive to; by the time I went to college, I had been on a plane twice in my life
Fast forward to now. When my grandfather passed away shortly after I graduated college, it turned out he had invested very well over the years, and my parents inherited a significant amount of money. To put it in context, they probably now have about the amount that you might have expected them to have had they both been earning a full-time professional salary throughout their working lives. In other words, were they putting a kid through college today, they would probably be in that “doughnut hole” where they would be full or very near full pay, but it would still hurt a heck of a lot.
I am aware that my parents are doing better than the vast majority of Americans – they aren’t 1 %s, by any means, but certainly 10%s. On the other hand, looking at their lifestyle today, and comparing it to how we lived during my childhood, it is hard for me to say that they are now “rich.” They are much more comfortably, certainly, but it is more akin to the difference between economy and economy + than coach and first class. My father was able to semi-retire several years earlier than he would have. They can travel to places like Italy and Spain, and go out to eat more often than they used to. But they aren’t living any kind of luxury life, and not just because of ingrained frugality. They can take a European vacation every other year or so, but it still makes sense for them to budget for coach travel. They could, if they chose, move to a bigger home, but it would be more along the lines of a home with 3 larger bedrooms and 2 baths on the same sort of street they currently live on than an upgrade to a gated community. They don’t have to agonize before going to a baseball game or Broadway show, but that’s still an occasional thing, not a routine occurrence, and they’ll still be sitting in the cheap seats, although if they wanted to splurge on orchestra tickets they theoretically could. They’ll spend several thousand dollars extra for the Honda with special features, but still can’t responsibly buy a luxury car, and will likely keep that Honda for a good ten years. Needless to say, there are no private jets, or second homes.
So, are they rich? In absolute terms, probably yes. But as their day-to-day lives aren’t radically different than they were when I was a kid – or from the middle class “American dream” ideal – it is hard for me to define them as such, because that conjures up images that simply don’t apply in their case.
when you walk into the bank and they call you by name! which happens at my bank with me…because it is a real small community bank. if I went to the mega bank two buildings down they would shun me as a peasant. but if you walk into a mega bank and they know who you are and the manager comes and takes you to the side to help you. or better yet the mega bank has the private banking people reach out to you.
That’s a great post!
I guess this is off-topic but Disney was brought up. How you approach it may not reveal your income bracket but it does reveal your approach to money.
How do you do Disney? You have a budget and save for a family vacation like my parents did who were lower middle class by any definition. If you are staying in the closest resort to the park, eating all meals in the park, and not shopping deals, you are rich, in credit card debt, or Disney is just your prime hobby (I know those folks). If you shop deals and stay in a mid-level resort you can get the park and lodging for $2000. We shop at a grocery store and eat breakfast in our room, return for sandwiches for lunch and buy one reasonable hot meal per day. All of that is about what it would cost you to eat at home. For my example, I’m presuming driving distance, not airfare for a family of four. A $2500-3000 vacation isn’t cheap but if a family saves for a year or two, it’s doable. Locals get season discounts. Disney is a better place than baseball because it’s worth it to me to take my kids to Disney every five years or so. Pro sports have priced themselves out of the range of fun per number of dollars/minute of entertainment.
Now all that said, I prefer to eat my sandwich in a National Park. Admission fee $10-20 for the family for the week or $80/year for the pass.
“There are a lot of families in apartments, living above storefronts, living in neighborhoods that are just invisible to lots of CCers. They aren’t friendly with the guy who drives a taxi and his wife works at a diner.”
My husband is the guy who stocks the supermarket shelves overnight. I know several CC families like ours, but in the main I think you are right. At the very least, it’s a middle class group in terms of advanced education. There seem to be more people on CC with a lot of education who don’t make a ton of money than there are completely uneducated people. Of course, there are still more CCers with lots of education and lots of money!
I also think PG is right. I didn’t read her point as you should be chummy with the busboy or the taxi driver or the waitress, though of course you should be cordial, but that do you know people in your day to day life that live those lives? Are they part of your world? In our case, yes, we live in a middle to lower middle class neighborhood (real world terms, not CC terms) and many of our neighbors and acquaintances work blue collar or service type jobs. I like that we live in a town and sent our kids to schools that are truly economically diverse.
We’ve consistently made the trade-off to be richer in time than dollars. It’s worked out pretty well for us.
I agree with @sax I have long ceased defining “rich” in economic terms. Makes no sense to me anymore. I am betting many people who are over the age of 45 or so and have done a little living probably think likewise.
But since this thread is about economics I look at one’s investable assets to define wealth. So I back out hard assets like homes, cars and boats which are often debt laden anyway.
But my definition is likely skewed as most of my career was spent in a division of an investment bank that specialized in wealth management for high net worth individuals. So we were only concerned with the assets we could manage - certainly there are many people who are “rich” in assets but are not liquid. You had to have a minimum of $1M in investable assets that we would manage to be a client, and at that level most were the young adult children of very wealthy clients.
We had basically 3 tiers of clients. Those with between $1M and $7M of investable assets which were our baseline “wealthy” clients. Then we had the mid tier of very wealthy clients of over $7M but under $20M - I know that’s a large spread. Clients with $20M or more were ultra high net worth and they were usually the ones that utilized all of our services including estate planning and trust administration. Another indication of "wealth in my mind is how complicated your estate plan is.
So I guess my own personal definition of “wealthy” is having at least $1.5M in investable assets. And those assets would not be required for tuition or living expenses.
I just read about people I know–friends of friends–who donated $6 million to a local charity/non-profit. These folks are people I think of as very rich.
I would love to have lots of money to donate to good causes. I do give to causes/charities I care about, but what I give isn’t really enough to make a difference. That being said, I am grateful to be in a position to do something that assists others.
My husband has a cousin who has built a very lucrative business. His probable take home has been at least a couple of million a year for about 30 years. They are smart and invest wisely, live in their means and donate. But they are still of the class of people for whom a four degree at a residential college is getting above oneself. Their son graduated last year and is doing an HVAC program with the hope of starting up a business. Advanced education is simply not a thing in that culture even if money isn’t a concern.
I like your analysis @HarvestMoon1.