We live at the airplane comfortable level. (Except with too many Yankee sensibilities to ever upgrade.) I’m well aware that we have a cushion to fall back on, including an unknown (but pretty big) amount for my mother’s estate if it ever gets settled. Many, many of my clients are recent immigrants with blue collar jobs clawing their way into the middle class. They buy houses and fix them up. There are a lot of people using dining rooms and living rooms as bedrooms.
@mycupoftea I enjoyed your post #82. What propelled you from your circumstances when you arrived here to your current success? Was it primarily education or working hard as a small business owner? We often hear that the “American Dream” is no longer possible, but that’s not what I see. In my neighborhood people with no formal education are doing really well as small business owners. Their kids often are the first in the family to attend college and go on to professional careers.
I just flew and there was n article on how air travel has changed. In 1970 15% or less of the U.S. population had flown on an airplane. In 2015, that was up to 85% of the population.
Back in the 60’s and 70’s going on an airplane was a special way to travel. And it was not something most families did, or could,afford to do.
Now…well…it’s like taking a bus in the sky.
Back to the topic. I also know a few millionaires. They are very humble, and truthfully, you would never know they have more money than anyone else. This is old family money. They all work, and really live like others…well except that in all cases they own a vacation home in addition to their primary residence.
“I never understood the point of defining the rich, the top 1% etc. I cannot even imagine having such conversation with my co-workers. What exactly is the purpose”
It was a discussion that started in our Estate Planing group and carried over to lunch.
Lots of people here on Kauai have a modest home, maybe with an ohana (standalone studio or 1 br) that they rent or, more likely, is occupied by family members, with a FMV of maybe $700,000 and no mortgage debt. But they are working 2 or 3 p/t jobs, or f/t for about $40,000/year, and can’t afford a plane ticket to visit family on the mainland, or any vacation. By the federal reserve standard of wealth, they are upper, but not really.
“Land-rich, cash-poor” we say. If they sold the home, they would be homeless; could maybe buy a place for $500k, minimum, but would then be out the $1200/month rent for the ohana. Or stuck in a very tight rental market.
I think the concept of “disposable income” or “liquidatable assets” is relevant here. What makes many people feel “rich” or appear rich to others is having income or assets that can be used for whatever the person chooses. One may choose to buy a boat, another a college education, another to take a vacation, or to save. But that is different, qualitatively, from the person who has a boat because he must fish to earn a living, or making a large income that is taken up by high property taxes or medical expenses for a disabled family member. A person who believes that a college degeee is a necessity will not feel rich just because they can afford one, but they may look rich to someone who views it as a luxury, I.e., a choice. A person with a large retirement account may not feel rich, but may seem so to another person whose whole family has survived through retirement on just social security. One person’s “disposable” income or asset may not seem to be so to another, who views it not as a choice, but a necessity.
So I’d say that someone with enough disposable income or wealth that they aren’t precluded from making the choices they’d like to make, due to lack of resources, is rich. If I could afford to skip 2 weeks of work (which I love, so I’d never quit just because I don’t need the money) and fly first-class to Palau to go diving, AND not have to stress about it, I’d be rich.
All this talk about terminology… Is no one going to mention the fact that several CC posters said they know BILLIONARES?! To those posters: I have always admired your posts and apparent internet wisdom:) BTW, my birthstone is diamond. And a Ferrari.
I also like 1 kg gold bars. And maybe a private jet? But a Ferrari would do just fine:D
^^ha ha I caught that too @InfinityMan. I was thinking “wow” when I read those posts! And I live in south Florida! 
The talk of knowing billionaires reminded me that a few years ago I was on a jury that was dealing with a case involving a Russian billionaire. The case was very bizarre to put it mildly. We heard about their extravagant lifestyle which was interesting especially since most of the jury were poor or unemployed. I just read that he is suing his ex - wife for fraud and has also now been arrested for inapproriate behavior with a 16 year old.
My reaction too infinityMan! I even just said to my H that people were nonchalantly stating " how they knew several billionaires." Hahaha
Also, those of you saying that you are not the 1% but " only" in the top 10%. I assume that you understand percentages. How are you not considered rich when 90% ( 9 out of 10) people in the USA, one of the richest countries in the world, are poorer than you?
If you want to be in the top 1%, compare your income to the whole world.
I agree with much of what Pizzagirl has said. You become so ingrained in your lifestyle that you cannot identify, or, notice other lifestyles. It’s normal. Think Downton Abbey, haha, as an example.
So I live and interact on a daily basis with people who have PHD’s. Do you? No matter your income, if you do not have one you are considered the lower 1% intellectually. Haha
I have a Ph.D. and most of the people I worked with had Ph.D’s Haha!
There are many young people who are already top 1-3%. Many associates/VPs at IB are 1% without graduate degrees. If their SO also make similar income, their combined income is very close to 7 figures. If you were to ask them if they are rich, I think most of them would say they are middle class.
Most people assume whatever they have or could afford is normal. It wasn’t until I was on my own and started to make money to realize how little I had growing up. I thought going to McDonald was a real treat.
Whether you are rich or not is really relative.
I am the one who posted that I know two American billionaires. I just checked, and one of them is ranked on the Forbes The World’s Billionaires List. I could not find the second one on that list, so I googled his net worth, and it appears that his real time net worth is estimated at ~ half of a billion, so I stand corrected. I know that some years ago it was believed to be closer to a billion, but, to be earnest, I did not follow that figure closely. Perhaps, this is the reason he continues to drive a used Honda 
It may be uncommon to know a billionaire, but why is this so surprising to everyone? A lot of them are self-made, they still live their lives, go to office, and meet other people.
“I have a Ph.D. and most of the people I worked with had Ph.D’s Haha!”
Me too, and I also have 3 PhDs reporting directly to me (co-incidentally, the 4th one is joining my team tomorrow morning). What does this have to do with this discussion? One does not need a Ph.D. to understand percentages, or to distinguish 6 and 9 zeros - it’s closer to elementary or middle-school level…
Sorry for multiple posts, but I’d like to respond to @momsquad (post 101)
Thank you for your nice post. In case of our peer group, the answer was always college education, followed by either professional career path, or opening a business in their professional field. All of them were in early/mid 20s when came to the US, usually with several years of college education towards STEM (medicine, applied math, engineering, statistics, physics, biomedical research, accounting, pharmacy etc) or other fields (musicians, architects, artists etc). However, almost no one had a completed or a transferrable degree, so everyone went back to school (some stayed in the same field, others have switched). Eventually, almost everyone completed a graduate or postgraduate school (which took a lot of time, effort, and of course money). After struggling for about 10 years, everyone found good jobs and started very successful careers. Most work for large companies, but several own successful businesses (an architectural firm, a very successful general contractor with a degree in bridge engineering, a private music school opened by a couple of high-level professional musicians, a software development company owned by a computer programmer etc). It definitely helps that they are very smart, hard working, and are very good at what they do. There were no divorces, so all spouses worked hard and supported each other though difficult times. And, although initially everyone went through a lot of hardship, no one faced any devastative diseases or catastrophes, made bad investments etc. Several were also very fortunate to earn their wealth through stock options, large bonuses etc, but every family I know has at least one high earner and comfortably belong to upper-middle class.
Yes, just wanted to state that having chronic physical and/or mental health issues can really affect the family and individual’s incomes and net worth, and how “rich” they become financially. I would venture a guess that many/most folks on CC are in the middle to upper middle class and compared to most in the US are probably earning 2x-3x or more what the median income is in their area of the country.
^Yes, our business really suffered as a result of our son’s mental illness. The recession hurt us, but his presence in our home exacerbated the problem. We had to take so much time managing his care that we couldn’t concentrate on finding the business that WAS out there. Now that he’s in a group home, we are able to start digging our way out of debt. That’s why I’m up right now. I’m taking a break but will probably be up all night, working on a very wealthy 80-year-old woman’s new house and horse barn design.
I spent about 10 years getting my kids to and from MD appointments, as well as working with their schools, so that they wouldn’t get kicked out for chronic health-related absences. It was grueling and we felt fortunate that I was able to work part-time and bring in some income to help offset the expenses. We are very fortunate to have good insurance through H’s employer, because the kids and I were uninsurable for many, many years and I continue to be otherwise uninsurable.
Even with great insurance, there is so much that is NOT covered relating to having chronic health issues, especially when it’s a kid that APPEARS too healthy and goes from being pretty functional to not being able to do much other than feed herself. We have been in limbo for many months, waiting for the bureaucrats to decide whether or not D is allowed to remain under H’s medical insurance or allowed to buy her own policy. It’s very stressful, but we have had no success getting any response, despite asking our insurer, our US Senator, and the agency that is SUPPOSED to be working on it. It is creating a great deal of stress and making getting appropriate medical care increasingly difficult.
I went to a reunion event at the house of someone who was (at least at one point) the eighth wealthiest person in the world. Believe me, the rich are not like you and me! I didn’t know him at Harvard and I still don’t know him, but I have had a conversation with him! I know lots and lots of PhDs. DH is one, and works at a med school.
The vast majority of PhDs are not in the top 1% for intelligence or for wealth.