<p>That estimate is wrong–residents make up a smaller share of the applicant total, but generally the other stuff you’re saying is sound. Not the b.s. about how Michigan people are trying to “support the myth of ivy status” (please! The personal slams against academics, people who work in higher ed, and Michigan supporters get very old, and I remain puzzled by the basis for them. You can make the same points without having to attach a dig into most posts–but boy do I digress) but the general math is not too far off. </p>
<p>At first blush people may think U-M admissions for OOS must be terribly selective, but because of the relatively low yield rate (due to high tuition, etc), Michigan admits more nonresidents than some posters may think. </p>
<p>In terms of reputation, I think most observers (yes, even the one sitting here at U-M) would give Berkeley the edge. I disagree with the OPs contention that no smart/sane person would apply to U-M from California, and also disagree his/her later insinuations that Michigan is only attracting lesser high school students from CA, but you’re not going to find me arguing that Michigan is overall a better school than UCB. Endless nitpicking over little details in selectivity are going to get nowhere because Michigan just does not release its data by residency. </p>
<p>These arguments over status are also funny to me because the relationship between the two schools is remarkably collegial–we have so much in common.</p>
<p>hoedown,
Let me give it another try. Is this any closer?</p>
<p>U Michigan Admission details from latest CDS:</p>
<p>Applications: 23,882
Estimated at 8882 in-state and 15,000 out-of-state</p>
<p>Acceptances: 13,610 (57%)
Estimated at 70% in-state and 49% out-of-state</p>
<p>Actual enrollments:
Total: 6082 IS: 4075 OOS: 2007
Estimated yields of 65% in-state and 28% out-of-state</p>
<p>Re your other comments, points taken. No personal antipathy intended. </p>
<p>All of the comment on U Michigan admissions is responding to statements of others re the relative difficulty of OOS admissions at U Michigan, eg, collegealum in #185 “I’ve heard it is as hard as a lower tier ivy for OOS” and barrons in #181 “UM OOS is about the same as UCB instate.” I believe that the numbers that I presented correctly contradict their perceptions. </p>
<p>As I stated in my first post in this thread (#167), I believe that U Michigan could be a very good choice for any student, including one coming from California.</p>
<p>Wow, so in-state yields must be really high, eg, maybe over 70%. Very impressive. I guess Michigan residents know a good thing when they see it, especially at a bargain price.</p>
<p>epi,
The UC system is mainly service the in-state students (90-98% in-state) + a large transfer student population(95?+% in-state) and one application for 8 schools,so we could assume that the application pool could be much less “self-selected” than other schools(private or public) with a higher OOS population. The typical UC applicant always apply 4-5 UCs if not all 8. The cross-admission battles are mainly inter-campus among UCs. This means they only “select” one of the UCs they “happen” to get in.</p>
<p>Hawk-Your numbers only deal with volume which means little. I am looking at actual enrolled student quality which is very similar. Just because UCB can induce 20,000 more people to apply by making it easy and then reject them out of hand means nothing.</p>
<p>To address the literal question, no one <em>needs</em> to apply to Michigan. However one reason they might want to (even if they live in California) that hasn’t been mentioned is demographics. I think it would be very useful for anyone interested in the UC schools to read the article in the NYT, Jan 7, 2007 titled ‘Little Asia on the Hill’ by Timothy Egan. Asian freshmen make up 46% of the class, compared to 29% listed as white.</p>
<p>The above may seem a little edgy regarding political correctness – but it is a straight quote from The New York Times, and strictly factual (assuming the national newspaper of record didn’t make an error).</p>
<p>The above facts may not make a bit of difference to some individuals, may be either a positive or negative factor to others.</p>
<p>ParentofIvyHope: In spite of the reputation in the rankings that the UC’s have, I hope my son does not choose to go to one. The main reasons are the overcrowded classes and lack of access to professors. Berkeley also has a serious housing problem. Also, from what I have read on this website, the students at UCB and UCLA are very disappointed with the administration and the bureaucracy at these two schools. It is very hard to get the classes you want. All this comes from lack of funding. Michigan funds their public schools very well. So, perhaps, you are getting a little more for your $ there and Michigan residents are getting a real deal. The second reason for not choosing an in-state school is to provide growth to my son. He is already comfortable with northern California. He drives all over the place for skiing, camping, and soccer. At the very least he should experience southern California, but how much better to understand the culture in another state! For me, it was a real eye-opener when I went to Texas from Florida. It made moving to CA that much easier when the job offers came from here. Of course, I understand your original post regarding “why pay for out-of-state public”. However, once you get past the top tier of private schools it is difficult to find a school with national name recognition. This recognition makes it worthwhile to go to an out-of-state public. Plus, the out-of-state tuition is often still less than private school tuition.</p>
<p>BTW, we visited UC Irvine last weekend and he hated it. Boring, he said, and I have to agree. I doubt he would say that about UMich. As an aside, my neighbor’s daughter went to UMich from CA 10 years ago and got into UCSF med school and is now a well-respected doctor at UCSF. It was a great decision for her.</p>
<p>ParentOfIvyHope is hilarious. The OP is so ignorant it is comical. Wow. Talk about living vicariously. You are a complete imbecile and it is useless to even attempt to answer your question. You are such a moron. I hope your daughter is rejected from every single school she applies to except for UC-Irvine. Haha! I bet she would be very happy there; you on the other hand, would be livid.</p>