<p>Just because a student might “benefit” from AA doesn’t mean they’re given a free pass through college.
I doubt a professor is going to say “Oh, you’re a URM, you don’t have to take the exam.”</p>
<p>They still have to do the same work as everyone else.</p>
<p>AA might help some get in, but it won’t keep them in. Which means, I assume, that they’re just as capable as their non-URM peers.
Some people seem to think AA just slides URMs in through Harvard and gives them a diploma that they don’t deserve, without doing any work.</p>
<p>Colleges can take whoever they want because they are in it for themselves and the money. They are not there to serve Jack Smith as a meritocracy. If having diversity, athletes, and legacies is how they get donations, they can do it. Nowhere are they obliged to be fair at all.</p>
<p>And i mean diversity is important for education as well right? Different viewpoints etc. Sure there are rich and poor african americans, but to deny the fact that race plays a role in how you live/perceive things is stupid. A black republican and a white republican will see things differently.</p>
<p>^not my arguemnt, but i found it interesting, when my friend and I tlked about it. Thoughts?</p>
<p>true, but isnt most of the fuss about the IVIES and those really competative schools? Thats what I presume msot ppl are mad about, not that they lost a spot at “x state university”</p>
<p>Yeah I guess that’s right. I don’t really have a problem with AA because I’m losing a spot, but rather because I think it holds minorities back by saying they need help. </p>
<p>Asians, Irish, Poles, Italians, and virtually every other ethnicity has faced discrimination and lack of opportunity throughout history.</p>
<p>“I don’t really have a problem with AA because I’m losing a spot, but rather because I think it holds minorities back by saying they need help.”</p>
<p>a) Who’s to say that you would even be offered a spot?!
b) Since you explicitly stated that you “don’t really have a problem with AA”, do you “really have a problem” with legacies, celebrities, and kids whose parents are on the Forbes list being admitted?! After all, they take spots away from “deserving” students too…</p>
<p>a) Cool down with the personal attacks.
b) Reading comprehension for the win. I said the reason I didn’t like AA was because it makes minorities seem like they need help, not because it takes away a spot from someone. </p>
<p>I don’t like the fact that celebrities and such get admitted, but again, that isn’t the reason I don’t like AA.</p>
<p>What I don’t understand is why they don’t give preference solely based on income and pure socioeconomic factors, nothing else. I don’t believe race should have a say, but rather the amount of opportunity available proportional to the financial ability. I think everyone can agree that it is just for everyone to get equal opportunity and footing. The loophole is that it doesn’t efficiently determine financial ability and draws predetermined conclusions about the statistical outcome of a certain minority group. I respect the ideas of the program as far as cultural diversity and support of those born with difficult circumstances, but it needs simple pure financial logic.</p>
<p>@run: I agree. But it’s easy to say: I’m african american, or latino, etc. It’s a very “easy” (for lack of a better word) way determine if you’re eligible for further benefit/aid. But if it was just socio-economics, it’s a hard line. Do you do it based on family income? Number of children in household? Zip code? There are already some problems with that now: households that make around $70k annually (approx) are on that line where the students won’t get a lot of financial aid because the school determines they have the money for college, but (especially if there are multiple kids going to college) hurts this middle-class family who may have other expenses (medical, legal, etc) and the universities don’t take that into too much consideration.</p>
<p>Smallz3141, I totally understand your point regarding the middle class. But I hope that our society hasn’t come to the conclusion that using the “easy” way is a beneficial approach to closing the opportunity gap. Using ethnicity confines everyone of that ethnicity into one group and covers up all the factors such as number of siblings, zip code, income, etc… The spectrum is broader thus escalating the overlook of special circumstances and difficulties. I know that someone has the financial and social understanding savvy to create a better alternative and fairer approach system.</p>
<p>I think AA should be SCRAPPED for a different approach.
RICH Black and Hispanic kids get ZERO sympathy from me. I don’t care how many times they have possibly cried over their skin color, their wealthy background should NOT be ignored simply because they need “more diversity” in colleges.</p>
<p>however, I DO believe that socio-economic backgrounds and parental-educational backgrounds need to be taken into consideration a LOT more heavily. Students in bad neighborhoods, with parents making little money, and/or other circumstances go through a LOT of hurdles to even dream of making it into amazing schools.</p>
<p>Quite often african american/hispanic and difficult economic backgrounds overlap, but when they don’t, those children should NOT be given a free ride.
No one in this country owes a “race” ANYTHING. The only people who America owes are the ex-slaves, and they’re most likely dead by now.</p>
<p>Acceptance based on merit, extenuating circumstances, ability, passion, and clear likeability/talent should be the keys .not the color of skin.</p>
<p>and I say this knowing that a very very wealthy african american girl who scored significantly lower in terms of GPA and SATs got into schools like Duke, Northwestern, and Brown while others did not, but who had significantly higher scores than her. Of course, I wasn’t one of these people who lost out (hehe), but it makes me see how unfortunate this system is.</p>
<p>A black republican and antoher black republican will see things differently.</p>
<p>Although I agree with the other part of the argument. In the end, it’s ultimately the college’s decision on who they want to admit. Instead of wasting your time arguing against it, perhaps you can use that time to work even harder to earn that spot in the college if you’re an ORM, if you’re an URM, you can use that time to work hard and prove to yourselves that you didn’t get in because of your status, what others think doesn’t really matter.</p>
<p>My point was that ppl were saying rich black kids exist etc…but my argument was that they still offer diverstiy (in ideas and culturally). Even if they belong to the same groups (middle class, same party, religion, etc). Race does play a role in how you live your life, your experiences, and perception no matter what. </p>
<p>So Race is jsut another aspect of diversity.</p>
<p>Yeah, a black repblican will differ from another, but i was trying to emphasize the differences that result because of race. </p>
<p>I can see why the desire for diversity of ideas/perception exists + why AA exists</p>
<p>Couldnt we look at this as a way to make the school better? Rather than to help the less fortunate? Just another angle on this.</p>
<p>Unfortunately I don’t think it makes the school better. I don’t think that a black student would bring in more “diversity” than an asian student. I don’t even see how diversity really matters.</p>
<p>In other words, a lot of people are racist? And thus we should listen to them?</p>
<p>And anyway, it’s not as if HYPS would be filled with asians/whites… there would still be hispanics, blacks, natives… Unless you’re saying that they really aren’t good enough?</p>
<p>Besides, chinese asians and India asians are totally different. Even Japs and Chinese are quite different.</p>
<p>If schools just let in the people who are most deserving, regardless of race or income, would that many people mind? I don’t imagine they would. The poor can appeal to private grants which are readily available and would be even more if government grants would be eliminated.</p>
<p>Really? I know a lot of people of the same race as me who have completely different ideas about the world and who really make me think hard about what I believe. I’m not as big on “diversity” as most people are, but even if you do want diversity, I don’t see why diversity of ideas necessarily means diversity of races, and vice versa. Isn’t it inherently racist to say that skin color = worldview?</p>
<p>Not trying to be controversial – just looking for an explanation.</p>