Those relate to performance, which is considered “applied” rather than “academic” in some quarters. Music history, music theory, ethnomusicology, music technology and sometimes composition are considered more “academic.”
@compmom are you talking about high school…or college?
I need to find it, but have read that at least a few colleges recalculate GPAs to focus only on the core subjects. As a result, things like PE, basic music or arts classes that aren’t AP can get discarded whereas an additional core class can be a help to your GPA and also assessment of max rigor.
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This is similar at my D26s high school. Only the “core academic” subjects (as the school describes it) count towards one’s GPA, so anything outside of that including art classes don’t get included in the GPA. In fact, it’s a religious school and even the required religion classes don’t count for the GPA.
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The best known GPA recalculators are the California public universities, which do include arts. They also include some other academic electives that are not classified as English, math, social studies, science, language other than English, or arts.
Arizona publics recalculate GPA based on English, math, social studies, science, foreign language, arts, and career technical education.
The Florida schools have an easy calc - +.5 Honors and +1 for AP/DE/IB.
Theyr are not looking for or eschewing theater but give a 4.5 gpa at the 25th percentile, a student might take what is deemed a core weighted class over an art.
Every college will have different desires, of course. This is UF’s.
Our high school had music history, music theory, music technology and music composition. This was in addition to all of the performing groups. Most of these other courses were taken by students in the performing groups.
Our HS instrumental and vocal ensembles also had some theory thrown in…and there were assessments both in theory, and playing or singing. And the music in the performing groups was challenging and students were expected to learn and practice it outside of the class time.
I acknowledge this might not be the case at all high schools.
As the mom of a kid who adored music from a very early age and excelled at it, I’m always jealous hearing about all the cool arts classes that are offered in some schools!
The arts programs were always the very first to be cut during budget tightening times in out town, even in elementary school. The classes offered in my D’s HS were beyond basic. No one, even the most staunch supporter of the arts, would consider them in the same breath as a core subject. Show up to class + show up to the concert = A. No homework, no theory, no outside practice. And it sadly sounded like it too.
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It is a real shame how some people think about these things, because “academic” or not, creative development is as important as any other form of development happening during these years. Indeed, creative development is not really separable from developing physically, cognitively, emotionally, socially, ethically . . . shared arts experiences are fundamental to humans living peacefully, and working productively, together in groups.
Oh well. Just another thing parents may have to try to handle if their schools will not.
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I agree 100%.
This makes me sad. I hear from people frequently “My kid doesn’t need to learn about art. He can go to a museum and read the labels” or “Why does the school need to teach music? It’s not like she’ll be the next Yo Yo Ma”.
And then we wonder why kids seem to spend their lives absorbed in the worst of popular culture, vulgar social media videos and posts, and admire vacuous celebrities who are famous for being famous.
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OP asked this question - Why are visual or performing arts in high school not considered “academic” by many around here?
And it doesn’t seem to be the case.
I think the arts are great. My kids both did band until they didn’t enjoy it and my daughter acted until she didn’t enjoy it. My son still plays the guitar and my daughter just loves to sing.
They didn’t go in deep - but I do think the initial assessment is off because as many of you showed, it is important.
But I also think every college is different in their interest or determination as to its importance. And that may decide kids desire to take classes or not.
I think everyone would agree - having a lot of the arts - even if it’s just to sing along to the radio in 20 years - is a great thing.
Personally, I wish, I could be a musician…..how great would it be if I could learn the guitar (tried). Maybe in my retirement, i’ll take up the trumpet (I was in hs) or learn piano.
And for some kids, creative development is more important than any other form of development.
We have 3 kids, all were very passionate and involved in music from about the age of 10. All were good students. We supported the programs in their schools and the first two were satisfied with the public school offerings at what was considered the top public school in our area for band/orchestra.
Our third kid, followed along after his siblings as third kids often do. But by the time he got to high school he started really hating the school based programs. Band was required for kids to participate in orchestra. And band was offered at zero period with orchestra at night one day a week. My son was a really advanced musician and very passionate about music. He hated everything about HS music. I think what he hated most was that most students didn’t take it seriously. There was a time we wondered if he would either quit music or quit school. Of course we were driving him all over for pre conservatory programs, lessons, very high level orchestras outside of school. But it was an insane schedule.
He ended up asking us to transfer to a performing arts boarding HS. Best move we could have made. There at least for him, his music curriculum was his core classes: lessons, studio class, master classes, small and large ensembles. And he took just enough other classes (standard HS academics) to be eligible for any university based music program.
It was such a totally different environment, friends of all arts disciplines and his favorite classes (he loves literature, writing and history) taught in a discussion based way. And his fellow students were as driven and inspired as he was, so they all grew so much with the collaboration.
I am so grateful that we found a fit for him. And of course know that we are privileged enough to be able to do it.
The public schools do the best they can. But I will venture to say a lot of superstars in the arts are out there who don’t get their chance because of lack of exposure, money and thus opportunity.
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I told my wife I’m getting a guitar when my youngest is off to college. Piano sounds great - but I can’t imagine controlling ten fingers at once!
Kills the fingers. I bought a trumpet. A crap one. Never worked. Eventually I’ll get it working. The arts are great.
Some may put it ahead of core subjects. Others not and it might depend on the school list.
This makes a lot of sense - at my kids’ school, 1 year (a full credit) is required of fine arts to graduate. The basic art classes seem to be basically graded on participation - my two more artistically talented kids got an A equally as easily as my decidedly non-artistically talented second-born. It was very similar to how their physical education class was graded, honestly - show up, do something, get an A.
My three older kids all did music activities outside of school (guitar lessons), but youngest S30 will be in band. We’ve heard that the first two out of three “levels” of band are basically graded on participation but the highest level ensemble is more challenging and more is required of the students.
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This sounds similar to C26, where anyone can be in the main choir class but they audition for Chamber Singers which is more demanding of what they actually perform. Honors requires a capstone project as well.
As an aside, C26’s common app essay focused on the role of music in their life, and another student we know who graduated last year and got some great offers for engineering also had a music-focused essay. The question of how academic these subjects are aside, it seems colleges do value the well-roundedness VPAs bring.
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You see a lot of high-achieving students on this site whose goals are prestige and money. They cannot drive a car yet but they know they want to work in private equity. And the arts are not considered useful for that path. “Academic” is what shines on your transcript for the Ivy League.
Both of my kids play instruments. We encouraged it. My son bought his trombone and plays in the pep band at college. My daughter is in the audition-level orchestra and I am encouraging her to keep playing in college. She takes weekly lessons to maintain her place. And yes, we signed her up for an SAT class, and are pushing her to take various AP classes next year. But it is all towards an end goal of having options and being happy. I would never suggest dropping orchestra. Or the sign language classes she loves. The journey is as important as the destination.
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This is not true. Music and art supplements, if justified, often pave the way for admission to Ivies and other top school. And in our experience those schools can be forgiving of less rigor on the part of a student truly committed to music, theater or art.
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That may be true in some cases, but I think many have the perception that STEM is the most important. I have seen threads on here about whether kids should take Differential Equations in high school, but none on doubling up on English classes despite how highly many schools and employers rank writing skills.
I’ve found when hiring people that degrees are more of a check-off box. I’m more interested in the person than the transcript.