<p>I was listening to a thoughtful story this morning about the military town of Fayetteville. While the military is a substansile part of the economy and the population, many whose sons/daughters/husbands/wives also serve are part of hte growing citizenry who feel that this “war” is not going to be “won” by Americans and that we are making it worse by being over there.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity4: Can I assume that the “thoughtful” story was on NPR?</p>
<p>Go and read Stars and Stripes…here is the link…read some of the letters to the editor…</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.estripes.com/[/url]”>http://www.estripes.com/</a></p>
<p>Great letter to the editor in todays Estripes…Retired military urging us to get out of Iraq. Our job is done there…there are no weapons of mass destruction to be found…that was the only purpose soldiers were sent there…so lets move out. No more pre-emptive wars</p>
<p>Guess thatll teach me to write all mad about stuff huh? I see that mini could write circles around most everyone here. I have to wonder though, what the expectations were when mini wrote I DON’T support the troops. I support the AMERICANS - the PEOPLE who have been pressed to serve, and put themselves at great risk, both of dying and of killing. Was there to be no opposition to such a statement? 1) Corinnas position does not deserve an attack. 2) The belief that American people are pressed into service is an almost laughable assumption. </p>
<p>I cant lay claim to being a worldly scholar by any means and do the best I can not to shut the door to new ideas and opinions. A few of minis statements just dont happen to fit into any category that Im willing to accept as anything intelligible. Radical maybe… I am in agreement on one thing: To get these people home. However, until that time comes and our leaders have made that decision, I would hope beyond hope that all Americans, no matter their politics, would seek to support the troops with anything humanly compassionate even lap rugs. Its the only way to acknowledge that we are not immune to their huge sacrifices whether we agree with them or not. </p>
<p>In a single second of a soldiers day, I doubt that he/she has ever considered what they have done or what they are doing as acting on their own behalf. Thats my assumption and Im sticking to it because I know too many of them personally. </p>
<p>Thanks again Corinna. Courage is grace under pressure. You have loads of it!</p>
<p>Bulldog
Thank you very much. Hearing things like that from someone who is so truely patriotic makes me feel proud to be apart of this country and the US Military!</p>
<p>It is hard to just say, support the troops without connecting it with why (?) they are there. I am sure some feel what they are doing is noble, while others feel it is duty and they made a commitment, and with others, they are now there (40% or more are reservists or national guards) and wondering why and when they will come home.</p>
<p>Is there an end? What is our goal?</p>
<p>Right now they are debating on the constituion in Iraq and are deadlocked. We are fighting for freedom? Well, women could lose many many rights…we are fighting for democracy, well it looks like it might be Islamic law…</p>
<p>So exaclty what are we doing and if we don’t ask and ask and ask demand answers from the people that sent our people there, there who will?</p>
<p>Please citygirlsmom - continue along that path. Its a just one. We all need to keep up with the whys & whens! My comments are not in reference as to why we are there. My comments were directed to not supporting our troops which this thread is based upon. However, I just have to add to your comments that it is a mess, is it not. Islamic law doubtfully will accomplish nothing as to the goals of democracy for women there. The whole thing is a sad sad deal. Loose-Loose situations generally are. Our goals for being there have taken a few wrong turns but hopefully something good will come from a bad situation. Can we hope?</p>
<p>Yup, life for women (and men) under Saddam was truly one of unequaled rights which they are now being forced to give up. Perhaps we should ask the opinions of the women who were beheaded (but, alas, they did not survive the loss of their head and are now dead):</p>
<p>
<a href=“http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/19675.htm[/url]”>http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/19675.htm</a></p>
<p>Fundingfather–like you, apparently, I am opposed to the execution of prisoners. However, judging by the poor human rights records of our allies such as Saudi Arabia, where summary executions, amputations, etc, are common, I don’t assume that they will be ended by the new government in Iraq, which is tending toward giving weight to Islamic law. Most likely, they will continue, and meanwhile, women will lose the basic rights they had previously had. Talk about your lose/lose propositions…</p>
<p>Do you mean basic rights like honor killings?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p><a href=“http://courses.washington.edu/com361/Iraq/religion/women_iraq.html[/url]”>http://courses.washington.edu/com361/Iraq/religion/women_iraq.html</a></p>
<p>Fundingfather, we went into Iraq to get rid of weapons of mass destruction and to promote democracy in Iraq, right?</p>
<p>The former proved unnecessary and the latter isn’t working out the way we thought either. </p>
<p>Nobody is disputing that Saddam was a complete a****** or that the population was abused under Saddam.</p>
<p>But, in effect that is exactly what you are doing when the implications are that Iraq women will be much worse off than before. It’s like the Michael Moore view of Iraq in which people were peaceably flying kites until the big bad Americans showed up and ruined everything. Were you aware that 60% of the Iraqi population said that their country was now on the right track for the future?</p>
<p>I’m not aware of the 60% number. What Iraqis want and what we want are two different things.</p>
<p>Iraqi women were bad off before, and my guess is they will be bad off after.</p>
<p>An article in the Washington Post tells me that Bush knows we aren’t going to get what we want in Iraq, and he is starting to explore a cut and run strategy.</p>
<p>American support for the war is at an all time low. Next year is an election year. I’d be nervous if I was a Republican politician. </p>
<p>The one thing that can help Bush is the Hussein trial. To watch people testify against Hussein should be powerful.</p>
<p>Thanks for the great article, FF. It’s main theme is:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Saddam was a monster. He cynically used honor killings to distract the Iraqis from the effects of war and our sanctions.</p>
<p>But I’m not sure how installing and blessing a government which will incorporate these cultural practices (which, interestingly, the article explains are not actually Islamic, but have been portrayed as such–very informative, I felt) in an even more entrenched way is a path we should be continuing on.</p>
<p>Here’s what we do know: </p>
<p>-under Saddam, women and men were treated brutally and with no real right to vote (since Saddam held 100% of the power) and no right to live and, if you were a woman, you would also be subjected to rape and other restrictions.</p>
<p>-without Saddam, there is at least a right to vote and a constitution will be written which will almost certainly give the power of law to the right to live. Beyond that, we don’t know yet how the constitution will be written or carried out. </p>
<p>Given the two choices, I’m pretty sure I know which scenario that I would choose - regardless of my gender.</p>
<p>BTW, note that Saddam’s shift toward fundamentalism stared before the sanctions - note that the honor killings were allowed starting in 1990.</p>
<p>Dstark, we went to Iraq to locate and remove weapons of mass distruction…the spread of freedom became an issue when the truth came out about the weapons not being there. Sadamn was a terrible leader in a world full of terrible leaders. Are we now saying that any country that doesn’t honor human rights as we describe them should be prepared for us to attack or only the countries that the President has a personal interest in attacking. Is Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and most of the third world now our responsibility? </p>
<p>Should we nail up a sign, there is a new sherriff in town and everyone nation better live up to our standards or else? I believe in inalienable rights but is the military the best way to spread democracy and human rights?</p>
<p>The President already declared that we won this war over a year ago, dressed in his military costume on the deck of a thousand sailors in their uniforms. Lets bring the troops home and stop cowboying all over the oil fields.</p>
<p>i am supporting our troops by doing things to bring them home for good. Iraq is a horror and seems to be getting worse by the month. The Administration seems to have no coherent plan other than to stay a course that isn’t working. The Iraqi’s are suffering, our soldiers are suffering, terrorist activity is on the rise, corruption reigns supreme, and the Sunnis/Kurds/Shiates cannot work together. The drafts of the new constitution send women back to the stone age and rage against the Americans is visceral.</p>
<p>We have given up the hunt for bin Ladden, he’s off the radar screen. And the only place where government officials are safe are in the Baghdad green zone and a few neighborhoods in Kabul.</p>
<p>The major crop in Afghanistan again is heroin. The Taliban and warlords are rising from the ashes and our air force has been kicked out os Kasikstan.</p>
<p>It just a horrible disaster. And our military brass have lost all respect for the civilian leadership in the Pentagon.</p>
<p>The reasons for the war in Iraq were a lie and this President spend more time on his $3000 trlail bike than working to modify the policies which have put our young people in harms way.</p>
<p>Bring our troops home now!!!</p>
<p>Interesting how we have now set the bar so low for what is an acceptable outcome for this war…freedom? constitution? democracy? we will see, its not looking too good so far</p>
<p>And, I must tell you, as a woman, I do not accept that being a second class citizen is a good thing. While, sure it may not be as bad, but to even think that it would be okay for women not to have the right to vote or to have to were the veil if they don’t want to, is freedom and democracy is typical, well, so long as the males have the rights, its all okay.</p>
<p>Freedom, what we claim to be fighting for for the Iraqi people is for ALL of its citizens, not just males, so unless women have the same rights as men in the new government, it will be a joke and will be a failure, no matter how it is presented.</p>
<p>As a mother of daughters, I am offended that one would think women having less rights than men is okay and is enough. </p>
<p>And, I am sure those women lost sons, husbands, fathers, brothers in this war. They have sacrificed, and yet it would be okay to not be able to vote?</p>
<p>And if we just wait and see? After all the sacrifices made by so many, just wait and see if, what will probably be more than half the population due to so many deaths in the war, to see those women not have equal footing, equal property rights, equal rights in divorce, to not be sure that is in the constitution is a slap in the face to those women that deserve the same democracy and freedoms of their men. And if we allow a Radical Relgious Government to rule, or to set the standards for the treatment of women and girls, we are jsut as bad as the dictator we went in to free them from.</p>
<p>And to make the statement, well, its a little better is just not enough. It needs to be a lot better.</p>
<p>Democracy and freedom is for ALL, men and women. Oh I forget, women in the US did not get the right to vote until the 1920,s, so why would we expect other governments to do better than we did? And it took acts of Congress and the Courts in this country to get the rest of our population, the non=white males the freedom to vote. </p>
<p>I am so angry that our government would think its okay for women to lose rights.</p>
<p>We have no idea how this is going to turn out. But we can’t just sit and wait. Women must be protected and have rights. To have anything less, well, is disgraceful.</p>
<p>
Note to George Washington: you guys failed; sorry about your sacrifice.</p>