Why do Chemistry Departments Teach Useless Classes?

College Majors Science Majors
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<p>Chemistry is useful. There are so many classes that can be taught in Chemistry that are not only theoretically interesting, but also industrially useful. However, these are RARELY taught even as electives, not at my school or even other UCs. Instead, we are force fed theoretical inorganic chemistry, biochemistry, chemical biology, pharmaceutical chemistry, computational chemistry, and other things useful mostly for the pharmaceutical industry.</p>

<p>I don’t see the need for 3 classes that are basically repeats of each other (biochem, chem bio, pharm chem) instead of opening some classes on things unrelated to bio or pharmaceuticals.</p>

<p>What if someone majors in Chemistry but doesn’t want to do pharmaceuticals? Well, at UCI, the answer is: switch?</p>

<p>Here are some useful classes I haven’t seen taught at the undergrad level in the Chemistry department at UCs, but are taught at the undergrad level in other departments, or in other schools. They should not be taught in ChemE deparments because they’re more focused on fundamentals, not on actual production, and are more towards the “chemistry” side, but they are still not taught. Faculty do RESEARCH on these things, and these classes are STILL not taught. Its as if Chemistry departments in the UCs are desperately trying to make their graduates as unemployable as possible.</p>

<p>Photochemistry:</p>

<p><a href=“http://sivagroup.chem.ndsu.nodak.edu/teaching/photochemistry/2011/chem726_Lectures/Spring_2011_siva_chem726_photochm_syllabus.pdf[/url]”>http://sivagroup.chem.ndsu.nodak.edu/teaching/photochemistry/2011/chem726_Lectures/Spring_2011_siva_chem726_photochm_syllabus.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Important because photochemistry is involved in every process from ozone depletion to electronics manufacturing. Theoretically interesting because of elucidating quantum mechanical phenomena that have macroscopic effects. Should not be in chemical engineering. Prereqs should include basic physics, general chemistry and physical chemistry. NOT TAUGHT AT UC CHEMISTRY DEPARTMENTS AT THE UNDERGRAD LEVEL.</p>

<p>Polymer Chemistry:</p>

<p>[Chem</a> 421 - Class Notes](<a href=“http://chem.chem.rochester.edu/~chem421/classes.htm]Chem”>http://chem.chem.rochester.edu/~chem421/classes.htm)</p>

<p>Important because polymers are used everywhere from electronics to drug delivery systems. Knowledge of polymers is nearly essential for a chemistry major. Theoretically interesting because polymers were some of the first totally synthetic materials and are materials that can easily be engineered for highly specific properties. Prereqs should include general chemistry, organic chemistry and physical chemistry. Can be in chemical engineering. NOT TAUGHT AT UC CHEMISTRY DEPARTMENTS AT THE UNDERGRAD LEVEL.</p>

<p>Electrochemistry:</p>

<p>[ELECTROCHEMISTRY-CLASS</a> XII Free Online Class](<a href=“http://edufire.com/classes/3989-electrochemistry-class-xii]ELECTROCHEMISTRY-CLASS”>http://edufire.com/classes/3989-electrochemistry-class-xii)</p>

<p>Important for everything from metallurgy to fuel cells to instrumentation. Significant applications in literally any field of chemistry. Highly significant because it shows the use of a totally different type of energy, different from thermal and light which Chemistry majors are frequently exposed to, for driving chemical reactions. Prereqs should include basic physics, general chemistry and physical chemistry. Is actually taught in the Chemistry department here as a graduate course, but its easily understood by undergrads. BUT STILL NOT TAUGHT AT UC CHEMISTRY DEPARTMENTS AT THE UNDERGRAD LEVEL.</p>

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So what’s stopping you from taking it? Math majors routinely take several graduate classes at undergraduates; does the chemistry department not allow you to do that?</p>

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<p>For whatever reason (pre-meds? biotech hype?), anything biology related is tremendously popular among undergraduates, even though the job and career prospects are poor. So even chemical engineering is being rebranded as “chemical and biomolecular engineering” (with a biology course thrown in).</p>

<p>So the course offerings may be merely catering to student demand, however misguided that may be.</p>

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<p>The chem department at my school has undergrad sections of some of the grad classes. My school also doesn’t require chemical biology or pharmaceutical chemistry.
This past semester intro to medicinal chem, sustainable energy, and adv organometallic chemistry were offered. Next semester polymer physics, spectroscopy, and quantum mechanics will be offered. I’ll be taking polymer physics. Might have taken sustainable energy this semester if I wasn’t juggling physical chemistry II, inorganic chemistry, and an upper level probability class.</p>

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<p>Barlum: no undergrad section for that grad class.</p>

<p>UCBalumnus: seriously, biotech hype is way too much. the school force feeds you these bio classes or pharmaceutical relevant classes as “electives”. There are 3 classes that are just copies of each other, advanced ochem which is just another pharmaceutical industry class, computational chem which has most of its applications in pharmaceuticals, more theoretical inorganic chemistry, and that’s it for upper div electives. Want to do things like photochemistry of polymers in electronics (for photoresist design)? Hahaha better luck at another department!</p>

<p>Chandi: What school do you go to? It sounds far better than mine. I like how your school has classes on polymers and sustainable energy. My school also has professors doing research in that, but they don’t even teach what their research is.</p>

<p>Seriously, I would not mind them opening 3-5 classes on the same damn thing if they’d also be fair and open classes for those that want to learn more about modern technology.</p>

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<p>Rutgers New Brunswick Undergrad has several diff. Chem options. There’s your regular core option, a business or law option, a chemical biology option, an environmental option, and a chemical physics option. The physics option looks interesting. With thermo thrown in as well as atomic structure, and quantum mech and solid state and so on. This is prob. the best track to go on if you want a r&d career after getting a PH.D. I could definitely see people in this track going to the DOE or a big oil giant like ExxonMobil and BP.</p>

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Why do you need an undergraduate section? I don’t know which UC you are at, but Berkeley lets undergraduate students enroll in graduate classes with the permission of the instructor.</p>

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<p>I didn’t know that. Thanks for the info.</p>

<p>Scientific Mind: Chemical Physics is also highly employable on its own with just a B.S. It shows you have quantitative skills along with not only physics knowledge but the ability to apply that knowledge to real systems in Chemistry. Physics degrees of any type except Biophysics are highly employable as market analysts and engineers.</p>

<p>I’d say the worst is going to be Chemical Biology or Environmental.</p>

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<p>I go to University of South Florida. It’s not particularly high ranking but I’d say it’s up-and-coming and is investing heavily in becoming a top notch research institution in the future (recently built a nanotech research facility and a huge more general scientific research building, tries to draw in National Merit students like me who might otherwise go to UF or out of state with full ride scholarships and pretty much a guarantee of an opportunity to participate in undergrad research even starting in freshman year). Undergrad research is highly valued and encouraged here. It’s also a huge school and there is a lot of variety in the courses offered.</p>

<p>Our chem program may be less focused on the biological side because we have a biomedical sciences undergrad program offered through the chemistry department, as well as a BA in chemistry with health professions emphasis that premeds are more likely to be attracted to (usually because they want to avoid taking pchem), as opposed to the chemistry BS where most of the students want to go to either grad school or industry.</p>

<p>As for the benefits of having an undergrad section, undergrad courses are a lot cheaper here than grad courses, for one thing.</p>

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<p>chemistry curricula are dictated by the ACS and they are beholden to where their money comes from namely big pharma.</p>

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<p>My god, where do I begin…</p>

<p>You complain these aren’t taught at the undergraduate level. Why don’t you just take them at the graduate level? Or better yet, pick up a book and read the material/do research with a professor who works in that field/do an independent study in that field. </p>

<p>You want to do Photochemistry? Ask Sergry Nizkorodov. Polymer Chem? Ask Professor Guan. Electrochemistry? Ask professor Penner. You pointed out, professors do research in these fields, so they must have to teach their graduate students somehow.
Have you tried getting off your butt and asking around? You realize you have to get off your butt to get a job, you have to do some leg work? Sending resumes, etc. Try doing some here. </p>

<p>Part of the reason people hire science majors is because they have this ability to NOT wait around for a class to teach them what they want to know. 3M does lots of works with adhesives, yet how many students take (undergraduate) classes in adhesives? well chem majors know organic/inorganic chemistry, so maybe they can pick it up. The fact that you’re still complaining about the lack of classes means you are going to get hammered even if you do get a job doing this stuff. </p>

<p>Lastly: I get it. You hate chemistry. Leave the field. Other people seem content not to complain. SShoe is getting a degree in accounting or something. I’m sure other people are tired of hearing you complain.</p>

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<p>Hmm… I’m taking the class in polymer physics mostly because I’ve already been working with polymers for a year with the professor who teaches the polymer physics and polymer chemistry classes here. I don’t think I would have known I’m as interested in it as I am without having been working with polymers already.</p>

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<p>The thing is, why should I have to independently do or take as extra, what the bio people do for credit?</p>

<p>Why can’t the school say, if people want to do biochem, talk to Dr. Weiss or Dr. Tsai? Why force everyone to learn it? Why do you not think backwards, and say that? Am I wrong for wanting more diversity of classes for undergrads? Should everyone go to med school/pharm school/work for big pharma out of chemistry?</p>

<p>Sschoe: Indeed, to gain ACS certification at my school, Biochem is required.</p>

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<p>I can see why intro biochem might be required, but nothing in biochem beyond that is required for the BS here. Advanced biochem is only required for the biochem BA.</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>Economics. Professor Weiss can tell the department he wants to teach chem bio and he knows he can at least 100 kids in seats. Professor Guan’s polymer chem class might fetch 6 kids.
If I remember correctly, last year the chem department sent out an email due to the low enrollment in Guan’s chem class (2 students). They even said if you wanted to take the class, they would change the class times so it would meet your schedule. Did you take them up on this offer?
Yes, it sucks being in the minority, a non-bio person at a bio school. I would have sympathy if it wasn’t for…</p></li>
<li><p>YOU CAN GET CREDIT FOR DOING THIS STUFF. You can get graduation credit for doing experimental photochemistry research with Dr. Nizkorodov. Chem 180 counts for one of the 2 lab classes to graduate. Any of the graduate level courses (Chem 225 for polymers or 248 for electrochem) can count towards your classes. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>As I quote from the catalog:

</p>

<p>You can learn materials at the undergraduate level in chem 156. You can minor in material science. Would it be hard to talk to some chem counselor/professor and have them sign a petition for you to count some mat sci classes?</p>

<p>Is there any reason you can’t take a graduate course? Did you try just asking the professor if you could be an easier grading scale because you were an undergrad? Did you do anything besides come on some random internet forum and whine?</p>

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Yes, I’m sure the ONE biochem class you chose to take (for ACS certification, not to graduate) ruined your life and brainwashed you to be a doctor.</p>

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I must have missed this memo. When was any biology of any kind required for graduation? With the exception of the one biochem class you need for ACS certification, when does the chem department force(or even encourage) you to do anything bio related? There are plenty of electives and classes such that you would never have see any biology. </p>

<p>Also, when you took pchem (unless you are taking it this year) did you take the 131 series? The pchem series NOT meant for bio majors? they were offered at (literally) the same time. </p>

<p>The department is even generous allows all sorts of non chem department classes to count towards the major (physics, chem engr, earth system science).</p>

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Aren’t graduate courses graded more leniently than undergraduate courses anyway? (A is for average, B is for bad…)</p>

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<p>You’re right. I was just angry about having to take that biochem class.</p>

<p>I actually didn’t get the email about that, unfortunately. If I had, I would truly not have written this message.</p>