<p>Help me understand what the problem was. My D got rejected today by Columbia. She was in-range for scores, GPA, great extracurriculars, great letters. Kids posted their stats and many were right around hers and some were even a bit lower AND THEY GOT ACCEPTED! Is there any way I can understand this? Is it race? Geography? Coin toss/random? Help me sort through some of these issue, cuz now she has to get the regular aps out and I’d like to see if anything can be modified.</p>
<p>In range just means that she’s in the range of likely acceptance. It does not mean that she is guaranteed acceptance. Remember that while there are a bazillion students in the likely range, there are less than a bazillion spaces in the freshman class. Someone has to get rejected.</p>
<p>Any college/university that does not indicate that she will be admitted based on some specific combination of coursework, GPA, and ACT/SAT scores (a number of state universities do publish formulae like this), has a group of human beings who will read her application and make a decision. How they come by their choices is their business. Their college/university, their admissions decisions. We don’t have the same information the admissions officers have about all of the candidates, and we aren’t the ones horse trading this possible student for that possible student in an effort to build the class the university wants.</p>
<p>Stop stressing about this place. Have your daughter make an appointment with her guidance counselor to review her choices.</p>
<p>Any school would quickly move up in ranking just by filling their freshman class with ED applicants… but they don’t. ED kids show true interest in that school and usually all have the “in-range” qualifications to attend. They will choose students based on gender, race, geography, contacts, etc but this is done with graduate and professional schools also. It is not fair, but true. Just look at it as the school’s loss and when they call you up next year for your yearly donation tell them to SHOVE IT as your D is having the time of her life at X university!!!</p>
<p>There’s plenty of other in-range students, and they’re trying to build a class.</p>
<p>I doubt it’s any fault of your daughter’s. Just work on writing good essays for the rest of the schools and move on.</p>
<p>Mimikat – look at the subjective factors that the accepted applicants are listing. There is NOT a linear consideration of “stats” – that is, if she is “in range” for scores, it matters very little if her scores are higher than someone else who is also “in range”. “In range” gets you in the door – once in the door, the focus is on the subjective factors.</p>
<p>I know that you and your daughter are genuinely (and rightfully) disappointed – but in your posts on CC you haven’t said anything about what your daughter has to offer Columbia other than great stats. I realize that you might not be disclosing details about her EC’s and accomplishments for privacy reasons – but the point is that once the ad com decides that a student has acceptable academic credentials, they turn to other factors. </p>
<p>Some of the kids who have posted about their EC’s and interests on the admitted student thread are amazing. I can certainly see why Columbia would want them. One accepted kid mentioned that he was the captain of a math team that placed 4th in the nation, and had a “fantastic” 850-word letter of recommendation from his math coach. I’ll bet that letter helped.</p>
<p>Since you haven’t posted about your daughter’s EC’s, or told us anything about her letters of recommendation or essays – there is no way to speculate as to why she didn’t make the cut. But it’s a pretty sure bet that each of the students who did get in either had a strong hook (like being a recruited athlete), or had something about their application that really brought it to life and made them especially appealing in some way. </p>
<p>One valuable aspect of EA or ED is that it does give the student a wake-up call. Many students simply need to improve their applications – write a more compelling essay, for example. Sometimes the problem isn’t with the applicant but with the presentation. It’s not that the rejected applicant’s presentation is bad – it’s just that the accepted students probably managed to do a better job in that department (especially the ones who seem to objectively have weaker stats).</p>
<p>I’d also note that stats are viewed in context of the school and personal background of the student. If your daughter comes from a very competitive private school, and she is comparing her stats to others – you have to keep in mind that the ad com is probably going to be more impressed by a 2200 SAT from a first-generation college applicant from a large public school in Kansas than a 2350 from a kid attending a college prep school in Maryland, who is the offspring of two parents with graduate degrees. So it really is a mistake to try to compare the stats of admitted students that are posted on CC unless you also look at each in context of the student’s background and other qualifications.</p>
<p>Gosh. No one can answer that. I doubt, even if you knew someone in Columbia’s admissions department they could answer that. Let’s say their rep from your area has … 100 (?) applications to review and consider.</p>
<p>30 of them are an immediate “no” due to stats or something else that really stands out (who knows, discipline). I’m totally MAKING UP these numbers…just explaining how they are correct when they all say the process is holistic (once yohave the stat range)</p>
<p>So now he still has 70 people and maybe gets 10 slots to fill. I know the regions don’t have EXACT specific numbers. But you will not find an elite school that isn’t represented throughout the nation/world. So…it’s not like their Midwest rep is going to be allowed 500 spots, you know? </p>
<p>So he sifts through and the cream rises to the top first. The 2400/36/4.0UW kids. And they might go in the “yes” pile and he already has 5 “yes” and only 5 more to place out of the remaining 65. THEN he actually reads. Again…MAKING ALL THIS UP but…once you look at the numbers you see how HARD it actually is to get into these colleges. HYP, for example…only 1200-1600 IN THE ENTIRE NATION get into their freshman class. That’s a LOT of very special kids who were told no.</p>
<p>So…back to Columbia Admissions person…who has to narrow 65 kids into 5. Now he reads essays. 5 of them can’t form a decent sentence even with their high scores.
Down to 60.</p>
<p>10 of them showed no continuity or passion in their ECs. Down to 50. 10 more little/had no leadership roles, 10 more had little/no volunteer work. STILL 30 and can only take 5!</p>
<p>So…what next? He reverses the process and, instead of eliminating he now selects the 10 of them had state or national championships in one thing or another (sport, music, acadmic). And they have “everything else”, interesting essays, plenty of “extras”. </p>
<p>Yet he STILL can take only half of THOSE! So something just stands out for him in the 5 he picks versus the 5 he doesn’t. One of them is an “army brat” and had to change schools repeatedly but still excelled. One of them started a charitable foundation or helped raise her younger siblings when her single Mom fought cancer. Another one is so passionate about math that they’ve taken every advanced class their school offers and some local college courses too AND is Math Bowl champion…you get the picture. The fourth one plays oboe…and Columbia is looking for oboe’s this year (it happens). And the last one goes to a tiny school and lives on a farm and their town is offering to help with tuition if the child returns home and practices medicine for 5 years after becoming a doctor.</p>
<p>So…YOUR child, while I’m sure a very attractive candidate…just didn’t end up in that mix. There are SO many talented kids; they work SO hard these days. I’d HATE to have the job of selecting. But…your child will get a great education and I believe that (for the most part!), kids get in where they SHOULD get in. I hope your child will be happy at their “2nd choice”. But, I’m sure you already know, there is no real answer to your question.</p>
<p>Luck!</p>
<p>R12: great post. This is exactly how I imagine it to be. Last year, due to a dearth of area alumni, I interviewed FIFTEEN kids for my HYP alma mater. Among these two really stood out. One was a great kid, heavily involved in Band but extremely intellectual and was one of the single best conversations I’ve had with a HS student in 20 years of interviewing. And I declared so in my write up. The other was an Indian girl who came from a very unusual background. She was a ballet dancer and pursued many things not standard in her cultural context. She wanted to be a journalist and was inspired by relatives who work in the arts and media. All her other family wanted her to do the “engineering thing” but she was determined to chart her own course. Even though her parents were engineers, they encouraged this too.</p>
<p>Neither was accepted by my college (although they are both at very prestigious programs now). Frankly, I feel my college lost out on two wonderful kids. But I know that I only see a tiny sliver every season and the real work is done at the admissions office. Of the 15, only one was offered a WL. That’s how the numbers work out and I’m OK with it.</p>
<p>mimikat: although difficult, try not to take it too personally. If you’ve ever been in a situation to sift through resumes, interview and then hire someone, you get a feeling of what it’s like. Best of luck to your daughter.</p>
<p>I also do alumni meetings with a HYP school, and I have to say it is very random. When I meet with the kids I try to let them know about the fact that there is a part of admission they can’t control no matter what their scores and grades are, some years none of the exceptional kids I meet with get in. At these kind of schools they seem to be looking for a sort of diversity that you have no way to measure, to put together a group from a bunch of stellar attributes.</p>
<p>If they accepted every student with stats in range, even with stellar subjective aspects of the application accounted for, they’d have thousands upon thousands of accepted students - far too many.</p>
<p>The very top colleges are building a class filled with a diverse group of outstanding students in all meanings of the word “diverse” including socioeconomic status, religion, extracurriculars, prospective majors, regions of the country and world. Those colleges aren’t having trouble finding enough students whose stats are within range. Those colleges have an overabundance of applicants within range.</p>
<p>Consequently, say an ED app is from NYC (where a lot of Columbia applicants come from), has a 2200 SAT (nothing extraordinary about that), plans to major in biochemistry and then go to med school (overabundance of such applicants), is valedictorian (colleges like Columbia could fill up their classes with valedictorians), and is Asian (overabundance of such applicants) with two physician parents (overabundance of applicants with highly educated parents) and is captain of the math team (overabundance of such applicants): Such a student – though outstanding – may be rejected because Columbia has no problem attracting such students.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, a student from Montana (would stand out in the pool because not too many Montana students apply to Columbia) with 2100 board scores who grew up on a farm (unusual) and plans to major in French (hard to attract prospective humanities majors) may be ED accepted.</p>
<p>There have been some good posts so far. Another thing, that I don’t think anybody has mentioned.</p>
<p>At my undergrad school, the adcoms tended to like slightly different types of students, and different individual stories. Frequently, there would be one adcom who was the de facto advocate in the committee for a particular qualified applicant. The decision on a given student therefore was influenced by how their de facto advocate advocated for them. Because as people have said, there are a lot more qualified applicants than there are spots.</p>