During her college search, my D had some very specific ideas about what “college” meant to her. To her college was New England, old buildings, snow and ivy on the walls. So, her list included reaches, matches and safeties in NE. She never, ever considered a school in the South, including schools that fit her other criteria like Emory, Duke, etc. That’s what was right FOR HER. Now, while she may be rethinking her decision to hang out in New Haven for 4 years after this year’s snowfalls (just kidding), those criteria were hers and hers alone.
Somehow the OP seems to think this means permissive parenting. Anyone who knows me knows that is not the case. I grew up in a military household where corporal punishment was acceptable. I wanted to go to Tufts in 1978 because I had gone up for a weekend, partied with the fraternities and sororities and knew I was going to have a great time there for 4 years. When the letter came from Yale, I said I wasn’t going. My mom looked at me like I was crazy and said no way was I going to Tufts over Yale. She put me on a plane for my first plane ride and we went up to Yale so I could see it. I also had a good time there that weekend. So, I ended up at Yale and the rest is history.
I also ran my household like a tight ship (minus the corporal punishment, except a spanking or two when she was very young). But even then, my child would have had the ultimate choice as to where she wanted to attend within the parameters we had set.
This is a tough one. My kid got in my dream school (Stanford). We went to admitted students weekend and there was absolutely nothing not to love. But she went a different direction. It’s her life and her call. She seems happy,so I’m happy.
I guess I’ll be a little bit contrarian. I think there are reasons to choose a college that are so bad that I wouldn’t pay for my kid to go in that direction. Maybe a school that isn’t accredited. Maybe to follow an abusive boyfriend. Probably others. There are other, less bad, reasons that I would probably try to talk my kid out of.
I believe it’s best for the kid to make the final decision. But there are some things I wouldn’t put up with–like, for example, refusing to get out of the car on a campus we had traveled to see. Fortunately, that never occurred with us.
Did anybody mention that South Carolina has an honors college? http://schc.sc.edu/
Lots of students choose honors colleges over private colleges, especially if the private college is small.
I knew a woman who went to school with me who wanted to be a marine biologist or oceanographer (I forget exactly which one, and I can’t really articulate the difference, so shoot me). She was miserable because obviously a school located in the middle of the country 1000 miles from an ocean was a poor choice. She wound up going to a “lesser” school for a graduate degree, but in light of her ultimate educational goals, she might have been better served going to the “lesser” school upfront. Maybe there’s a particular major or co-op that USC offers that Colgate doesn’t. I don’t know.
I do think the time to have the discussion is prior to applications. I didn’t want my kids applying to anyplace I wouldn’t be fine sending them.
To me, comparing Colgate to USC is apples to oranges. I think if you were choosing between, say, Colgate, and an LAC ranked in the hundreds that would be a better comparison, and I probably would “make” my kid go for the higher one unless there was a really compelling reason (such as a major not offered elsewhere). I’m not sure I’d go for weather being an issue, honestly.\
But people want different things. Not my kid, not my problem.
With all due respect, you have no way of knowing that.
And unless you’re interested in pursuing a career in academic medicine, there’s really no downside to going to a less prestigious medical school aside from a lack of bragging privileges.
Any student accepted to Colgage likely qualified for South Carolina’s very good honors college: http://schc.sc.edu/
For a student interested in attending a larger university with good weather, especially if a business major was a priority, choosing SC over Colgate makes perfect sense. Colgate’s a great school, but a lot of smart kids would never even consider it because of some combination of its location, size and preppy reputation.
Some of this discussion reminded me of the story I heard regarding some friends of my parents, back in the early 1960s. Their son was not a great student, but his adviser suggested that he might have a shot at a liberal arts college in upstate NY (can’t remember whether it was Colgate or Hobart). They rose before dawn for a 6-hour drive to visit the campus for an interview. The son met with an admissions officer briefly. The officer then approached the parents, and asked why they were there. Apparently, the student plainly informed the admissions officer that he had no interest in that college, and no amount of money or pressure could ever persuade him to go there. I read a lot of posts from parents on College Confidential that bring this story to mind.
My son never looked at Colgate. Why would he? Over-rated hype. It’s not his type of school. He did consider the Honors Program at South Carolina. And I would have been perfectly fine with him picking a warmer weather school. The baseball program at South Carolina is superior to Colgate’s. Must be a hundred plus reasons to consider USC over Colgate.
CC is the only place I’ve run into people for whom rankings and stats mean so much that they’d literally force a kid to go someplace they didn’t want to go for the sake of prestige. In real life, most people I know send their kids to perfectly good schools because of a good fit, not because they’re on a list somewhere. I’ve met people from all walks of life, varied SES and most all of them went to state schools or a private college in their own state or one nearby. I have never met someone who chose a school based on rank. But obviously this matters greatly to some.
Some of the most successful people I know didn’t even go to college. But then, perhaps their definition of success is different from those who count numbers on a page as the most important thing. We’re already getting comments based on D’s intended group of colleges. Cool-SHE is the one going and WE are the ones backing her. No one else.
My son wanted a city/suburb, and didn’t consider weather. There were many colleges that fit that category. I encouraged him to apply to Duke and Emory, closer to me, but he wouldn’t. It was a process of elimination.
I still find myself scratching my head how the OP’s DD had USC and Colgate on her list. I can think of many other fine colleges in that area, like Davidson.
It’s not the parent’s choice in the end because it’s not their life. Where a person goes to college can greatly affect the rest of their college career and their life. By forcing your kid to go a specific college, you’re not only choosing where they spend the next four years of their life, but you’re also choosing the direction their life will have and honestly, parents don’t really have that right.
Plus, at the point that kids are choosing college they are almost, if not already, eighteen. As parents, you shouldn’t be making these types of decisions for your adult kids.
Callethiel-I wish I could find my high school yearbook. It featured a poem that says basically exactly that. I’m sure there are others, but the fact is that while we get to set parameters, like financial considerations, our kids should get to live THEIR lives. I think that’s lost to many parents these days. Not only do some parents choose their kids schools and even majors, they continue to direct them as to where they should live, what kind of jobs they get-I’ve even heard of parents calling kids’ bosses to complain about their work! This seems like insanity to me. And then we see people complaining that younger workers under them can’t make a decision on their own and need step-by-step directions. And we wonder why.
A few years ago I went to an admissions department meeting for prospective students and parents. The reps flat out said not to force your child to apply to a school she had no interest in. Rep said that it was not uncommon for them to receive letters/emails/phone calls from students who had applied requesting a rejection! The kids said the parents would insist on them attending if they were accepted, and they really wanted to go somewhere else.
These kids could not just tank the apps as the parents were very involved every step of the way and would know if there was self-sabotage.
This is funny. I don’t think you really know much about Colgate if you think they party less there than at SC.
Have any of you folks pumping up Colgate ever been to Hamilton? I have. Charming little town… there’s a stoplight now for when traffic gets bad. Drive in any direction for 30 miles and it’s nothing but cornfields and trees. They get about 7 feet (!) of snow on average every year. I’m sure the students are too busy enjoying the great outdoors to party. Look it up on google maps and check out the earth view… that environment is not for everyone, regardless of any alleged academic advantage.
Plus, Colgate is a big jock school… 25 D1 sports teams with only 3000 students, plus a huge number of club sports. What if your kid isn’t into sports?
And here’s another factor to consider when comparing a tiny flagship with a large state flagship. Colgate has about 3,000 undergrads, the Columbia campus of SC has about 25,000. If you scrape the top 12% of students at SC, how would their stats compare with Colgate’s? I bet they are very similar. If your kid has a big brain there are plenty of similar kids for yours to meet and live with and go to class with.
The “job” advantage is mythical as well… the main reaction you’ll get outside the northeast (and even in the northeast!) is “wait, where? I thought Colgate is a toothpaste.”
SC serves a different mission as a state school; they can’t just skim the cream. But that doesn’t mean SC doesn’t have plenty to offer besides better weather.
There is little point in comparing SC to Colgate and it’s especially so if the starting point is “partying”.
Colgate is an elite LAC, larger than most, and strives to be the best liberal arts university in the US. There is that cliched work hard/party hard reputation of course but in recent years the Greek scene has lost momentum while alternatives such as the residential colleges have been promoted. Then there is Colgate’s famous core curriculum, off campus study programs for more than 2/3 of our students and superb access for all students, faculty and staff to comprehenisive resources dedicated to its sole mission: educating and supporting undergraduates as global citizens alongside their majors.
Oh, and then there’s those toothpaste jokes, trite and tiresome as they may be. Too bad there are those who believe in their substance and even go so far as to pretend they make a difference to graduate schools and employers at quality institutions. Colgate is an enduring and proud institution and is breathtakingly beautiful- as any of our 34,000 alumni will tell you.
I don’t even think anyone’s demeaning Colgate, just saying that it’s perfectly reasonable that it wasn’t this kid’s first choice, and that’s fine. It’s a lot of people’s first choice, and there are a lot that wouldn’t be happy there. I’m not sure what there is to defend.
Agree ^^… outside of the Northeast, Colgate is first and foremost a toothpaste, and while University of South Carolina doesn’t have any particular renown, where I live (Colorado) it would offer a much more recognizable school name on the CV. (By the way, I once talked to a young HR person involved in recruiting who’d never heard of Middlebury. I bet she’d have the same reaction to Colgate.)