<p>In Pizzagirl’s scenario, every girl gets in some where. Cornell is like that. The problem is you may not get into the house you want. A lot of girls drop out in the middle of rush if they get cut from their favorite houses (you get cut from a house when they don’t rank you as their top X). There are also some lower tier houses that only get a few girls, instead of full house. I heard they have a computer program to do all the matchings.</p>
<p>Most college panhellenic systems have gone to this computer method of matching. At most schools, if you maximize your options by attending the max number of parties that you are invited to, and attend pref parties, you will be matched to a house. If you drop before the end, then obviously, you’re out of the game. </p>
<p>There are VERY few reasons why a girl would be dropped from EVERY house on campus, and usually it is grade related. </p>
<p>As colleges get more and more competitive, the gpa’s of incoming freshmen go up and up, so the individual chapter requirements follow. Just because the website says minimum gpa requirement of 2.5, that isn’t usually the case, the individual chapters may have a much higher requirement.</p>
<p>dad’o’2 wrote
</p>
<p>It’s still like that. During homecoming week at my school, one fraternity through a ‘foam party’ on the quad. This consisted of setting up a decent sized tent, lining the ground with hay, and renting a foam machine to fill the tent while they danced around like morons. I was shocked and disgusted to even see the advertsiements for the event. I just hope nobody from the outside community saw this. I was embarrassed to even walk by the area as they cleaned up the next morning. It makes for an unfavorable image for my school’s students. </p>
<p>I don’t hate greeks, but I can understand why people do. I’m young, but when I see greek life in old movies, it seems like they were respected. They look like honorable students becoming men with values and brotherhood support. No offense to anyone, but the only impression I get from fraternities now is that they are a group of boys who live in a house and drink on the weekends and occasionally show up half-drunk to community service events on Saturday afternoons. They don’t seem to study in their houses (due to all the nonsense that goes on), so they end up sitting in the library till 4 a.m. the night before a test looking at spark notes online. </p>
<p>I’m sure there are many that don’t fit this mold and still respect the values of greek life, but the above is my general assessment.</p>
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<p>What about if they just don’t want her and they like the other candidates more?</p>
<p>^^^ I guess an “unpopular” candidate would be matched with an “lower tier” sorority. </p>
<p>“A lot of girls drop out in the middle of rush if they get cut from their favorite houses (you get cut from a house when they don’t rank you as their top X).”</p>
<p>^^^ This doesn’t sound like the humane “no cut” (except for grades) system that Pizzagirl described.</p>
<p>Dating is not humane either. Most of us do find someone to marry, not necessary end up with the richest, best looking, but hopefully the right fit.</p>
<p>Haven’t read through the thread- but looking to procrastinate so taking question at face value.
*On thiis forum, people always seem to refer to sorority women as rich, drunk, slutty, partiers who have no diversity, no quirkiness, no academic ambition, and no genuine kindness. *</p>
<p>This reminds me of people who have an issue with their nose, with the " status" of their alma mater, even the kind of car they drive. They will always-notice the noses, status & vehicles of others.</p>
<p>Everyone else, not so much.
So to be completely clear- I disagree with the premise that those posts on CC which concern Greek organizations " always" are negative.</p>
<p>I’m a member of an NPC sorority, and my experience in my sorority has been completely different. No one in my sorority is what I would consider stereotypically “rich”–in fact, a few members are putting themselves through school by working, and until I got a job this year, I was pretty much the only sister who did not work. I don’t drink and rarely party.
I think that working is helpful in college, to help plan time & meet people- but since I was of the understanding that sororities were more expensive than living in a dorm, I am curious as to what is the advantage to those who are putting themselves through school, to incur extra expense?</p>
<p>*Some of my sisters drink more than others, but I’ve never felt excluded because I don’t, and honestly, I think anyone who joined our house because that’s what they wanted out of college a) probably wouldn’t get in and b) wouldn’t be happy here, *</p>
<p>I think my daughter felt the same way at her school- they didn’t have the Greek system- but some students on campus did use substances more than others- but those who chose not to, were not ostracized ( or vice versa, apparently)</p>
<p>Strictly ancedotely, it seems like Greek women tend to drink less than non-Greeks.
Hadn’t heard that- I think there are numbers that show the opposite.
I go to school in state that’s VASTLY (maybe 95%? Or more) Caucasian,
Why would you want to live where it is so homogenous-? I guess I see college as a time to stretch your comfort level- but maybe that is just me.</p>
<p>* but we still have a few members of different races, one member with a physical disability, members from a variety of poolitical and religious backgrounds, and a huge range of hobbies, interests, and outside activities.*</p>
<p>I am curious, you want a pat on the back for this?</p>
<p>* I have more than a few friends in the house that I would consider “quirky,” and many of our members go on to graduate or professional school. *</p>
<p>Um, do quirky and graduate school have something to do with each other?</p>
<p>*While I can’t say that everyone gets along with everyone all the time (… when would that EVER happen?), I can say that the genuine kindness of the Greek women is one of the reasons I decided to go through informal recruitment. *</p>
<p>I think people are nice in general, but I would disagree that those who chose the Greek system are more friendly /polite/kind than others, they may be more outgoing however</p>
<p>So why are Greeks treated with such distain on CC?</p>
<p>See my first response- I think most of us, * really do not care*, unless the school where their student is interested, has a large percent of activities run by Greek system.</p>
<p>I don’t mind clubs- I am in a few myself- I think it can add to the academic experience- however, when the club starts to take away from the reason why you are in college in the first place- then that raises a flag.</p>
<p>pulling a train" (taking turns with passed-out freshmen girls)</p>
<p>Since you need to be able to consent to sex for it to be legal- that would be gang rape.</p>
<p>“one fraternity through a ‘foam party’ on the quad.”</p>
<p>Mather House at Harvard has thrown foam parties, too. Maybe the frat one you saw was more moronic, or maybe foam parties just aren’t your thing. Nothing wrong with a little hedonism in my book (especially since it was open to the whole campus).</p>
<p>“This doesn’t sound like the humane “no cut” (except for grades) system that Pizzagirl described.”</p>
<p>Pizzagirl described a system where no girl is cut by the whole CAMPUS except for grades. Individual sororities can always choose not to invite someone back. Inevitably some houses are very popular, many freshmen prefer those houses versus the rest, and the popular houses cannot take everyone. But there are enough spots in the <em>system</em> for everyone.</p>
<p>I can’t fathom going through rush myself, but campuses like Cornell do a pretty good job of making room for everyone somewhere.</p>
<p>Harvard also has Primal Scream.</p>
<p>Im not a big fan of sororities or frats. But it has more to do with my aversion to institutionalized friendship. I have never been a joiner. My D is on a campus where sororities are very popular. D was completely turned off by pre-rush week. She was approached on campus,while walking to class, by several girls from different houses ONLY on the day when she happened to be carrying a high end designer purse her nana gave her. She asked one of the “sisters” what was up and they said that a designer bag was a great way to pinpoint the type of girl they wanted. ICK
Also to paraphrase Groucho “I would never join club that would have me as a member” ;)</p>
<p>My experience in the early '80’s:</p>
<p>Freshman girls go thru rush during new student week - classes have not even started. They are dressing up and trying to impress girls they don’t know and everyone is talking about the “reps” of the different sororities – i.e. this particular sorority asks how much your dad makes, this one has the most popular girls, this one is for the ugly girls. . . (I am just observing this because I did not sign up for Rush, basically becuase I knew nothing about it.) The night the girls get their bids, many girls are screaming happily, but I remember one particular girl on my floor did not get in anywhere and was crying. My 18 yr old self thought, why does she care what these girls she did not even know a week ago think of her? But of course it is quite a rejection and a public one at that.</p>
<p>During new student week, I aso went with some girls to a frat party where the guys were recruiting for “little sisters”. Talk about feeling like a piece of meat! I felt like they were just looking for girls who were – trying to think of a nice word here – easy.</p>
<p>So, coming in to college with no preconceived notion of the Greek system, I was thoroughly turned off by it within one week. Certainly it may not be like this everywhere. And many schools have Rush later in the year. But, I hear current stories from friends whose sons have pledged at different schools and I certainly believe there is hazing going on still.</p>
<p>I don’t see anything wrong with dressing up and trying to impress people you don’t know. Good grooming, manners and social graces seem to be a lost art nowadays. On most of the campuses we visited, most students were dressed in jeans, athletic shoes and a sweatshirt. (Not that there is anything inherently wrong with that.)</p>
<p>Wow, foam parties at Harvard too, huh. Young adults acting like 12 year olds. I didn’t see that stuff in high school. I am shocked that this crap goes on at colleges. I would think once you’re out of junior high you find entertainment outside child activities. Why not just open a chuckee-cheeze on campus? Absolutely amazing. This is why I have absolutely no respect for fraternities. College students would garner more respect without them, rather than the rest of the community looking at us like a bunch of party-crazed punks.</p>
<p>Bay–Dolce and Gabbana, Gucci and Versace are more important to many sororities than are “good grooming manners and social graces”.</p>
<p>Personally, I dislike frats and sororities because all the crap they have pledges do is irritating. It’s bad enough it’s humiliating for the pledges themselves, but it’s annoying to me when people run around like idiots all over campus. Don’t see the point. Other groups manage to make their freshmen and rookies jump through a few hoops for fun without getting in other people’s way, but the fraternities and sororities demand idiocy like having pledges walk tied together in pairs, eyes straight ahead at all times, only turning at right angles. Or barreling full-steam-ahead with their elbows up in the air, never mind if they elbow anyone in the face. Or stealing all of the utensils from the dining hall ever night, or having stupid late-night “initiation ceremonies” where they end up screeching at the top of their lungs in unison for an hour.</p>
<p>It’s stupid and pointless and whenever pledging is going on, I wish they didn’t exist. I know plenty of nice, interesting people in fraternities and sororities, and some “greek” orgs are better than others… but in general, they seem like destructive institutions. It’s also worth noting that all the sororities I’ve encountered have been very, very invested in enforcing ridiculous, uber-feminine appearance standards, which I don’t think is a good thing.</p>
<p>Colleges would be rather boring if everyone thought dancing around was moronic. It is supposed to be a time of balancing rigor of school work with a little bit of fun.</p>
<p>College students garner plenty of respect, as is shown on this board. But, adults know to expect some hijinks and fun from students (we were there once too), and certainly don’t harbor ill will toward silliness, which the foam party you are describing sounds like.</p>
<p>You mention that you have seen greek life depicted in old movies where the guys are respectable. I guess you’re not talking about Animal House?</p>
<p>musicamusica - on some campuses, certainly not all. That is a vast generalization that is really not fair.</p>
<p>“This doesn’t sound like the humane “no cut” (except for grades) system that Pizzagirl described.”</p>
<p>Each individual house is, of course, free to cut or not cut as they see fit. At least in the system I’m describing, unless a girl was <em>truly</em> unable to carry on a conversation (picked her nose and gave everyone the finger type of thing), chances are there would be a house or two that would like her and keep her on their list all the way through. Of course not <em>everyone</em> is going to get into the most desirable sorority – just like not <em>everyone</em> is going to get into the Ivy Leagues or that coveted analyst position at Goldman Sachs. But that doesn’t make the system “unfair” if everyone has an equal chance to “audition” (for lack of a better term). And frankly the sorority system was designed to be more fair, insofar as every girl going through rush was met by all of the sorority houses, as opposed to some sorority houses deciding a priori that they didn’t want to meet certain girls.</p>
<p>It’s really not all that different from how you find friends in general – you talk to people, you mutually determine if you hit it off and have common interests and want to get to know one another more. It’s not “unfair” if you meet someone and they decide they don’t want to get to know you better or vice versa - that’s life. YK, for all the talk of the stereotypical snobby sorority girl who decides that she doesn’t want to know you better because you don’t carry a Gucci bag, if you took away the sorority, she’d just be the snob down the hall who doesn’t want to know you better because you don’t carry a Gucci bag, so I’m not sure what the sorority angle has to do with it. There are snobs everywhere, nerds everywhere, and decent, nice people everywhere.</p>
<p>“Personally, I dislike frats and sororities because all the crap they have pledges do is irritating. It’s bad enough it’s humiliating for the pledges themselves, but it’s annoying to me when people run around like idiots all over campus. Don’t see the point.”</p>
<p>Many collegiate sports teams do similar pranks / hazing / forced brother-sister-hood whatever you want to call it. Is that equally bothersome?</p>