Why Do People Revere UC Berk and UCLA So Much?

Applying to College
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Beyond many people on the CC messageboards, this happens a lot in real life too.

I’ve seen it so many times in which UC Berk and UCLA are treated like academic gods. People treat those unis with such reverence and respect, and feel they are superior-- not JUST superior, but somehow “extra” superior.

Now, why is that? They are both very good schools, but there are almost two dozen more that are better ranked. I’ve seen more people fawn and bow down over those UCs than Ivies like Cornell, or Brown, or Dartmouth, or U of Penn. Or other better ranked schools (than those two UCs) like U of Chicago, U of Virginia, even Duke.

What is it about UCLA and Berk that make them so admired and yearned for? Do people like them extra much because they’ve got cheap tuition or something? Because good as they are, neither of them break the top twenty. There ARE better schools… but it often wouldn’t seem that way from my personal observations when people refer to Berk or UCLA.

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<p>Because the graduate schools are so good. Berkeley graduate schools consistently rank above Ivy leagues. Engineering is ranked 3rd in the country.</p>

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<p>You must spend a lot of time in CA. They are not at all revered outside of the state.</p>

4

<p>Simple:
UC Berkeley is academically superior and their grad programs are ALL in the top 10, most ranked #1 with one exception. And since grad school is where research goes on, Berkeley is easily the #1 research institution. And they dont get a lot of money, which makes it even more amazing.</p>

<p>UCLA is the largest university in California, and is known for its campus life rather than its academics. It’s undergrad gets all the praise, even though it’s ranked lower than Berkeley.</p>

<p>Sorry zagat, Berkeley is very well known around the globe, and is only surpassed by Harvard, and is in about equal standing with MIT and Stanford. This is true in India, China, and many other countries and states.</p>

<p>UCLA is also well known.</p>

<p>So CA schools aren’t revered without cause. In fact, they should be just as respected as they are now, considering they made such good use of the limited resources they have and are in the top.</p>

<p>To bring up an analogy, ever heard of the Cal football team beating the Stanford team even though Stanford has facilities about 2349823 times better? Well, makes Cal seem even more impressive.</p>

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<p>Yes, zagat, they are.</p>

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<p>Why you ask? Their price tag…really…for one of the best education you can get, their price tag is such a bargain. UCB is known for their superior grad school…like bubbles stated and UCLA is also up der with med and law.</p>

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<p>I think most of the peolple from CA. does.
Because it is cheaper and best deal for them.
UCB has best engineering and science grad. school.
UCLA is not as good as UCB.
Both of them are not elite schools of Law, Medical, or Business.</p>

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<p>I actually don’t spend much time in CA because I live two thousand miles away. I live in the South, actually, and even here people place those two UCs on some glorified pedestal. </p>

<p>I’ll share an ancedote: A group of my friends were talking about what colleges we were thinking of going to (this was after all acceptances had been sent out). Among the colleges named were NYU, USC, Duke, Vassar. And the university eliciting the biggest “Oh! Wow! No way!” remark of “stunned admiration” was UC Berkeley. </p>

<p>“They are not at all revered outside of the state.”</p>

<p>I would think they would not be so respected out of state, too. But from my personal observations here (and, yes, in CA, where our family visits sometimes) they ARE. I’m very suprised you would make that comment. I guess in the North (with all its Ivies) or in the Midwest they aren’t as revered…?</p>

<p>aim78: Thanks for the reply. Their great reputation for grad schools is probably a big reason they’re so revered. But a lot of people I know looking towards undergrad admire Berk and UCLA almost excessively too.</p>

9

<p>According to USNews (which to so many, is the holy bible of higher education), Cal and UCLA may not be ranked as high as Harvard, Yale, U Penn, or Stanford, but they’re still excellent universities. </p>

<p>If we’re going to talk about rankings, we might as well mention that Berkeley is arguably the best university for graduate school, hands down. Also, according to a new set of university rankings, Berkeley was dubbed the # 2 university in the world, behind Harvard. Not to say I honestly care about all this bullhonkey…the smallest smigin of a ranking difference seems to set this board on fire.</p>

<p>There are many reasons people admire UCB and UCLA so much, and quite frankly, I’m not going to list them all. The fact that they are both public schools, yet still manage to be leading research universities is fabulous in itself. Sure, perhaps the fact that the price tag is half of what a lot of respectable privates charge is what draws many people in. The fact is, it doesn’t matter if you went to UCLA or Princeton for undergraduate. If you are grad school bound, and proved yourself worthy throughout your undergrad years, you’re going to have similair, if not identical chances at top grad schools. I don’t think people seem to get this. </p>

<p>Also, in my opinion, here’s the reason why some people “bow down” to UCB and UCLA more so than Dartmouth and Cornell: UCB and UCLA are powerhouses in the public school scene. Cornell and Dartmouth (both being excellent, wonderful schools) are overshadowed by Harvard and Yale, just like UC Davis and UCSD (both great schools also) are overshadowed by UCB and UCLA. UCB is the top university in the nation, and just for clarification, is ranked higher than UVA. UC Berkeley is the first public school listed in USNews rankings.</p>

<p>Once again, we are getting off track here. I’ve been seeing so many threads like this, and frankly, I’m sick of it. If you have the grades and cash to go to an ivy, then by all means, go for it. Some people actually like the edge of going to a public school, and enjoy saving the money while they’re at it.</p>

<p>P.S. Boalt Hall and Haas Business School are both elite schools, just so everyone is aware.</p>

<p>Peace, Love, and Candy Canes,</p>

<p>Izzie Bear</p>

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<p>Certainly Cal and LA have amazing grad schools. Undergrad programs, however, leave a lot to be desired and don’t rank well. The international reputation is based on grad programs and research.</p>

<p>A native Californian, I saw people’s reactions in the NE when I said my sibs were at Cal. "Are they hippies/revolutionaries/druggies/crazy?</p>

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<p>As all lawyers know, Boalt Hall is one of the very best law schools in the country.
As all doctors know, UCLA is one of the foremost research hospitals in the world.
As all teachers know, both UCLA and UCB attract excellent undergraduates</p>

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<p>2006 Best Business Schools:</p>

<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>UPenn(Wharton), Stanford</li>
<li>MIT(Sloan), Northwestern(Kellogg)</li>
<li>Dartmouth(Tuck), UCB(Haas)</li>
<li>Chicago</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>U Michigan(Ross)</li>
</ol>

<p>2006 Best Medical Schools - Research:</p>

<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>JHU</li>
<li>Washington U in St. Louis</li>
<li>UPenn</li>
<li>UC-san francisco</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>U Washington</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>U Michigan</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
</ol>

<p>2006 Best Law Schools:</p>

<ol>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>NYU</li>
<li>Chicago</li>
<li>UPenn</li>
<li>UMich, UVA
10 Northwestern U</li>
</ol>

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<p>“Why Do People Revere UC Berk and UCLA So Much?”</p>

<p>WHY NOT?</p>

<p>If sometimes people here on CC stopped for a moment and actually evaluated a school on its own merits, I think they would be a lot more appreciative of that school. With that said…</p>

<p>Why can’t people revere 2 of the best public schools in the world?
Why can’t people revere 2 of the best “bang for your bucK” undergrad deals in the world?
Why can’t people revere 2 of the best grad schools in the world?
Why can’t people revere 2 of the best institutions in producing research in the world?</p>

<p>Why, why, why? </p>

<p>Look, I’m sorry if UC Berkeley has big class sizes. Maybe high achieving middle class people aren’t meant to be educated then. Maybe good education should only be for the rich and elite. But no, UC Berkeley undergrad has a different mission. It’s mission is to educate the public (of California). Think of it this way. Earning admission into UC Berkeley (or UCLA) is like winning a $20,000/year scholarship to some other private institution of equal caliber. Yeah both aren’t ranked “high” on US News, but if they’re such a poor institutions, then why do they continue to attract so many applicants? </p>

<p>Frankly, UC Berkeley’s graduate programs are top-notch. That is why they are internationally known. Look, many many colleges don’t get their name-recognition from undergrad. That’s why Brown, Amherst, Dartmouth, etc. aren’t so recognized to the general public. Colleges with the big time name recognition earn that from great grad programs, and Cal deserves to be up there with them. </p>

<p>In short,

  1. Quality undergrad education for a bargain price
  2. Top-notch graduate programs</p>

<p>What more can you ask from a public university?</p>

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<p>My 3 oldest siblings went to Cal. Heck, we were first generation and lived in Northern Ca. Cal was the only school! I had a mentor who had gone to Williams and I ended up there. Once my family saw what could be, the string of Cal grads (undergrad) ended. It is huge, under funded, overly competitive and no one seems to have fun there.</p>

<p>I have niece and nephew who are there now simply because it was by far the best school they were accepted to. Make no mistake, Cal doesn’t approach any ivy or LAC in terms of difficulty of admission. They will accept WAY lower SATs which is what my relatives had to contend with.</p>

<p>While Boalt would not not be on the top of my law school lists, Cal engineering, science and other grad programs would be. But undergrad? Not even close to top!</p>

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<p>For undergrad. students went to elite(top 5%) law, business, and Med schools:
Harvard: 25%
Yale 21%
Princeton 17%</p>

<p>UCB < 1%
UCLA <<<<< 1%</p>

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<p>Just to add to what others have said…</p>

<p>Faculty and scholars highly respect these schools. Look at the reputational rankings of their graduate departments–they have programs considered TOPS in their field. They produce what is regarded as some of the best research and scholarship in the world. </p>

<p>I’m over a thousand miles from California, and I can tell you that Berkeley is very highly regarded here. UCLA, too, but Berkeley especially.</p>

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<p>“no one seems to have fun there.”</p>

<p>Uhm…I SERIOUSLY beg to differ.</p>

<p>Sure, Cal and UCLA aren’t rolling in dough. Maybe it’s because they are public institutions, and are part of a state funded UC system. </p>

<p>You know what two questions I am ponder while I look at this thread?</p>

<ol>
<li><p>If UCB or UCLA went private, I wonder how much bashing would continue. Maybe if Berkeley and LA charged up the wah-zoo to attend, perhaps then people would give these schools the credit they deserve. Jeeze. Is money the only thing that matters to you people? </p></li>
<li><p>TAKAICARBON, I understand the point of your post, but UC Berkeley’s Boalt Hall is ranked number 11 in terms of the best Law schools in the country. Sorry it missed your cut off.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Just for good measure, a friend of mine went to Yale right after high school. He was pleased with his experience, but his family was hard on cash by his junior year. He transferred to UC Berkeley and spent one semester there. He ended up dropping out of school. He said the academics were so hard, he couldn’t handle it. He was amazed at how spoiled he and his fellow students at Yale had been. He continued to tell me, “If you can graduate from Berkeley, you can do anything”. </p>

<p>Psh.</p>

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<p>Top Business Schools: Berkeley is #6, UCLA is #11, Yale is #15.
Top Medical Schools: UCSF (which is tied with Berk) is #5, UCLA is #11
Top Law Schools: Berkeley is #11, UCLA is #15
Top Engineering Schools: Berkeley is #3, UCLA is #15, Harvard is #20
Top Education Schools: UCLA is #2, Berkeley is #7, Cornell is #45</p>

<p>Even though rankings don’t tell the whole story, you can see that Berkeley and UCLA deserve their reputation.</p>

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<p>Don’t make judgments on why certain schools are more highly praised than others despite of one set of college rankings. US NEWS, nor any other rankings, is not a definitive or even accurate assessment of college programs.</p>

<p>I’ll give one reason I think contributes to this- sheer volume. LA and Berkeley are HUGE, meaning you’ll find a lot of alumni floating around and passing on the good word of these UCs. Also, lot of students means a lot of athletes, and with attention to these school’s athletic programs, it helps give more attention to these schools (not necessarily their academic programs). The admissions to these schools are very wide open, or, the pool of applicants are composed of a wider range of students. Students apply into it, get rejected, and realize the school is too good for them. Students see smart friends apply and get accepted, and form the opinion that such-and-such is a good school. A lot of faculty is needed to teach all of these students. California is one prime location, and any professor would be willing to take a spot at any of these schools (as well as any of the other UCs) simply to spend time in the Cali sun. By volume, Berkeley has one of the highest number of medal/honors winners in their respective fields. There are a lot of field of studies, of course, so you don’t just see a cluster of strong alumni defending a particular program (ie Dartmouth grad alum would be most proud and most concentrated on certain schools, like Tuck, etc) whereas Berkeley grads are represented across a lot of fields, ranging from your sciences to the most obscure liberal arts majors. Sheer volume.</p>

<p>TTG</p>

20

<p>“1. If UCB or UCLA went private, I wonder how much bashing would continue.”</p>

<p>No one’s “bashing” either of them (at least I wasn’t). But people have the right to express an opinion in which they feel both are overrated.</p>

<p>"Just for good measure, a friend of mine went to Yale right after high school. He was pleased with his experience, but his family was hard on cash by his junior year. He transferred to UC Berkeley and spent one semester there. He ended up dropping out of school. He said the academics were so hard, he couldn’t handle it. He was amazed at how spoiled he and his fellow students at Yale had been. He continued to tell me, “If you can graduate from Berkeley, you can do anything”.</p>

<p>Uh huh. Very good measure. You have ONE ancedotal story from ONE person that you feel justifies the idea that Berk is harder than Yale. Maybe for that one person. </p>

<p>You’re obviously biased because you’re transfering to Berk. I highly respect Berk, but to a degree, among some people, it is overrated. That’s all I was saying. I don’t believe anyone was making blanket statements that it was somehow an inferior school, so don’t take it that way and try to bring in completely ancedotal “evidence” that Berk rivals an Ivy like Yale.</p>

<p>Oh, and IzzieBear:</p>

<p>“Once again, we are getting off track here. I’ve been seeing so many threads like this, and frankly, I’m sick of it.”</p>

<p>You see MANY threads like this? Well, I don’t. Please, if you find any other thread arguing that UCLA and Berk might be overrated post a link. Because I doubt there are many.</p>

<p>Oh, and if you can’t handle criticsm of your school-- “I’m sick of it”-- learn to suck it up. Every school gets criticized, and Berk is usually not one of those schools that is criticized particularily often.</p>

<p>“If you have the grades and cash to go to an ivy, then by all means, go for it. Some people actually like the edge of going to a public school, and enjoy saving the money while they’re at it.”</p>

<p>How about this idea? NOT EVERYONE IS FROM CALIFORNIA. Not everyone is paying lower, in-state tuition to go to a UC. That’s why a school like, say, USC is bashed so often. Many Californians can’t fathom why someone would pick a more “expensive” school like USC over other California schools like UCLA, UCSD etc. USC is half out of state. A qualified out of state student pays around the same amount for a UC or USC.</p>