Why Do Some Books Make It Into the Literary Canon?

<p>Anne: I think that’s an amazing list of works. I actually haven’t heard of every single one, but it is varied, demanding and interesting. If you can get kids through that, you’re a wizard and your students will be very lucky.</p>

<p>The only negative comment I have is that it’s hard to really grasp The Aeneid without the Iliad and the Odyssey, but I wouldn’t want to discourage you because the The Aeneid is not taught often enough.</p>

<p>I also wonder a bit about Elizabeth Bishop, not that she isn’t a good choice. She is. I’m just curious.</p>

<p>Of course, Mismeasure of Man isn’t a literary work per se, but no matter.</p>

<p>I’m unfamiliar with Paradise of the Blind, Thief and the Dog, and Blind Owl. Could you fill me in?</p>

<p>Scientist here, who hated English class in HS and took the bare minimum in college. I remember being forced to read Moby Dick and hating it. I feel differently now, and I wish I could take a course from you, mythmom, or your HS course, Anne. I am enjoying this thread. It’s inspired me to read or re-read some of these classics. </p>

<p>So please don’t worry about posting your thoughts!</p>

<p>Well here’s a very casual and personal list:</p>

<p>English Lit:
Beowulf
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
Chaucer: Canterbury Tales
Chaucer: Troilus and Cressida
Poems of Wyatt, Sidney, Spenser.
Marlow: Dr. Faustus
Shakespeare: Hamlet
King Lear
Macbeth
Othello
Richard III
Midsummer Night’s Dream
Ben Jonson: Bartholomew Fair
Selected Shakepeare Sonnets.
Selected Poems of John Donne
Spenser: Book III, The Faerie Queen
Milton: Paradise Lost
Selected poems of Herbert, Herrick, Marvell
Selected Restoration drama: Wycherley, Goldsmith
Essays by Addison and Steele
Selected Poems of Dryden
Selected Poems of Pope
Samuel Johnson: Rasselas, poems
Jonathan Swift: Gulliver’s Travels, essays, poems
Fielding: Tom Jones or Joseph Andrews
Richardson: Clarissa
Sterne: Tristram Shandy
DeFoe: Moll Flanders
Selected Poems of Woodsworth, Coleridge – Introduction to Lyrical Ballads
Selected Poems of Blake, Byron, Shelley, Keats
Jane Austen – my choice for the canon is Mansfield Park
Elizabeth Gaskell: North and South
Emily Bronte: Wuthering Heights
Dickens: Bleak House or Hard Times
George Eliot: Middlemarch
Joseph Conrad: “Heart of Darkness”
Thomas Hardy: Jude the Obscure (Yuck – most depressing book ever written)
Poems of Christina Rosetti – “Goblin Market”
Gerard Manley Hopkins: Selected Poems
George Bernard Shaw (Irish, but…) Major Barbara
Virginia Woolf: Mrs. Dalloway
H.G. Well The Time Machine
War Poems of Wilfred Owen
George Orwell 1984
Aldous Huxley Brave New World
James Joyce (Irish, but oh well): Everything he wrote but Finnegan’s Wake
Aldous Huxley: Brave New World
Graham Green: The Third Man, The Comedians
Anthony Powell: A Dance to the Music of Time (12 volumes)
Kingsley Amis: Lucky Jim
Evelyn Waugh: Decline and Fall</p>

<p>I am not going further in more contemporary English literature because it has yet to “canonized.” Haha. I will say favorites of mine are Margaret Drabble, Iris Murdoch, Ted Hughs.</p>

<p>Will do American in a bit. This is a long post. There are also staples of translated literature and other literature in English from Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa (as well as a tremendous store of amazing English language literature from India.)</p>

<p>The God of Small Things mentioned by Anne is an incredible novel.</p>

<p>I’m not going to lie, English classes basically killed reading classics for me. I’ve read many of these books and don’t care for really any of them. </p>

<p>And burn me at the stake, but I don’t like Shakespeare. I’ve tried for years and just don’t like them. I don’t have the patience to figure out what the text is trying to say. I’ve seen and worked on numerous plays, workshopped with Strafford (sp?) actors, etc. Still don’t like them.</p>

<p>I love more modern classics like Brave New World, etc. Maybe because they haven’t been shoved down my throat and analyzed to death.</p>

<p>I am a Humanities major, too. Irony.</p>

<p>I had a brilliant HS Brit Lit teacher. We read Hamlet aloud so each class period was like coming in to act out the play. We couldn’t wait for the class. We did cut back the theatrics when we broke a sword across a desk and realized someone could get hurt doing this. But so much fun! That exercise in acting out Shakespeare showed the entertainment value of his plays. Our textbook apparently had the “expurgated” version (discovered while reading aloud from different sources) and so it was decreed to get the “real” version by the next day. We hit all the major poets, sonnets, Canterbury Tales, you name it–we did it. Not everything was studied in “depth”. We touched on everything though. We ended up with a broad knowledge and appreciation of British literature.</p>

<p>romanigypsyeyes: Ouch and more ouch.</p>

<p>I have no objection to your personal tastes. Nor do I want to “burn you at the stake.” When I teach English to basic composition classes I don’t “shove classics down their throats.”</p>

<p>Perhaps you are just not meant to be an English major.</p>

<p>For me, being exposed to literature, modern or older, was always a joy. I never felt like anything was shoved down my throat. If things were hard to understand, it was a joyous puzzle.</p>

<p>Come to think of it, I felt the same about calculus and physics. Something to learn and master is always exciting to me.</p>

<p>I would only teach these texts to students who had signed on to read them.</p>

<p>But I was asked for a list, so here it is.</p>

<p>And I don’t mean to be rude, but these classics can survive without your approbation. They are not all to everyone’s tastes, but they are all a reflection of the best writing and thinking of their day.</p>

<p>And “analyzed to death” may just be an attempt to teach a different way of viewing things that doesn’t means essential elements.</p>

<p>And “modern classic” is an oxymoron.</p>

<p>And not everyone likes Brave New World either.</p>

<p>I have read every book on the list, and I am proud to say my doctoral dissertation on Thomas Pynchon (as contemporary as one can get) was awarded best in the US (of all dissertations, not just English) in 1987. I couldn’t have written it without all this background.</p>

<p>Grappling with all these texts developed me, and now I <em>do</em> feel confident discussing literature with all my students, or anyone else.</p>

<p>When a student is amazed at my facility with analysis of poetry and asks me if I got it from the teacher’s manual, I say, “I often teach the teachers who write the manuals.”</p>

<p>I’m sorry that these writers don’t meet with your approval, but the tone of your post is quite dismissive.</p>

<p>Lol myth, I’m sorry, that wasn’t meant to you! Just general frustration at the people who have called me uncultured over the years. I’m typing on my phone so I didn’t even see your list before I posted. Again, nothing was directed at you.</p>

<p>Nothing dismissive. Just not my taste and there’s nothing wrong with that :-)</p>

<p>Mythmom: I’m surprised at how many on your list I had to read in HS. My son had to read others and I have gotten them by default (I read most everything my kids are reading). Guess I didn’t know about the “canon” at the time. I’ll try out some more.</p>

<p>“Lucky Jim” just seemed too dated–I couldn’t get into it and my son didn’t enjoy it either. Not a snipe but what’s the value? I know his teacher thought it was great. Maybe I didn’t read enough.</p>

<p>Question: what happens to other genres of fiction? Is there a “canon” or “classic” list of science fiction, fantasy, mysteries?</p>

<p>Three children … three different high schools … 11 high school English teachers ranging from incredible to … hmm … not-so-much. A moment of thanks here to mythmom, Anne/PA and others who make classics come alive for the students they teach. I recognize in your lists many titles that my children had the pleasure - and, yes, displeasure - of studying. </p>

<p>Some titles (mixture of English/American lit, old/new) not yet mentioned - though I might have missed the inclusion.</p>

<p>The Picture of Dorian Gray
Rape of the Lock
Murder in the Cathedral
Endgame
Their Eyes Were Watching God
The Divine Comedy
Ender’s Game
Bartleby the Scrivener
Red Harvest
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
Atonement
</p>

<p>Tale of Two Cities is my favorite Dickens.</p>

<p>Mythmom–Impressive list! I won’t try to make one from scratch, but I’ll just make a few comments on some of yours:</p>

<p>I know Chaucer needs to be there, but I never liked him as much as I was supposed to.
Adding “The Tempest” to Shakespeare
Never liked Dryden or Pope but guess they need to be there.
Austen–my choice would be P and P or Persuasion
Dickens–definitely Bleak House, and I’d add Our Mutual Friend
Jude is pretty damn depressing, but let’s add Tess of the D’urbervilles for depressing company
contemporary --another Drabble fan here. I would also consider adding her sister, AS Byatt.
Since you included a couple Irish writers already, then I think we need to add Yeats, Synge, and Heaney, for starters.</p>

<p>changing topic–count me as another who didn’t see Moby Dick as a boys book. But then again, I think some people interpret it differently from how I do. </p>

<p>I think Steinbeck is necessary --Grapes of Wrath is extraordinarily resonant in our present times. I could def do without The Pearl or The Red Pony.</p>

<p>And the first book I’d eliminate from the American canon would be Ethan Frome, which has to be the most joyless book I have ever read. Why do we inflict this on teenagers, just so we can talk about the “significance of the red pickle dish”? ech.</p>

<p>Fun discussion!</p>

<p>No, there isn’t anything wrong with it’s being not your taste, and I said that. The problem is when people generalize from their taste and really do make judgements on the quality of something.</p>

<p>I don’t see why my S is so crazy about the Star Wars movies, but I assume that the lack is in me, not them.</p>

<p>I have trouble slogging through Moby Dick but I still recognize it as an amazing and highly influential work. Again, the lack is in me.</p>

<p>I loved chemistry but not physics. Is there something wrong with physics or is my brain lacking in the physics region? Obviously the latter.</p>

<p>Of course you are entitled to your preferences, but the language of your post (“shoved down my throat”) went beyond that. Believe me, I was required to take physics for a Regents degree at my school. I would never say it was “shoved down my throat.” I would say that I was lucky to be exposed to it, and I am thankful that I understand some of its basic principles.</p>

<p>And I don’t take your thoughts personally, but I do encounter them every day, and I think that we elevate ourselves too much when we use our personal preferences as norms. For example, I really don’t like blue clothing. I can’t say why. Although I just fell in love with four robins’ eggs outside my window which is making me rethink blue, I have never liked blue. But that doesn’t say anything about blue. It just says something about me.</p>

<p>The “canon”, whether it’s in literature, painting, music, architecture, philosophy or even scientific writings is just a list of what most folks educated in a particular discipline agree is important.</p>

<p>It certainly isn’t a list of the “prettiest pictures” or “most accessible music” or “easiest to read” books. Education exposes students to some of these. Not all are favorites; maybe none are favorites. However, for the right student, like me, each one is met with excitement.</p>

<p>I don’t expect that of my students, just respect. And I would never assign these works unless a student had signed up for a British lit survey. Well, I might assign one or two. No student of mine in an intro lit class is getting out without a Shakespeare play. So romanigypsyeyes, you might have wanted to take another section had you been there.</p>

<p>None of them sign out, however, and many say it was the best part of the course.</p>

<p>Have you tried watching Kenneth Branagh’s Much Ado About Nothing? That usually does it for them. They love it.</p>

<p>Thanks for your comments, Mythmom. Our students in Grades 9 and 10 went through a nice two-year list that (hopefully!) prepares them for IB English Lit – we studied:</p>

<p>The Odyssey (Ian Johnston’s excellent abbreviated version)
Romeo & Juliet
Fahrenheit 451
Brave New World
1984 (see a theme here?)
poetry of Alfred Lord Tennyson
Ethan Frome
Much Ado About Nothing</p>

<p>Those newer, more contemporary books on our IB list (Thief and the Dog, Paradise of the Blind, and The Blind Owl) are all world-lit titles in translation. So that adds a cultural dimension to our studies…</p>

<p>Interesting!</p>

<p>This was a great list, and much fun for me and the students. Very enjoyable, thought-provoking, and good reads.</p>

<p>Yes, my students loved the Kenneth Branagh film of Much Ado About Nothing-- highly recommended!</p>

<p>And my new crop of Grade 10 students next year will enjoy The Great Gatsby, and hopefully we can see the new Leonardo DiCaprio film coming out next Christmas. This class will also study The Tempest, and I want to see that Julie Taymor film that portrays Prospero as a female character. Should be interesting!</p>

<p>Roman–your view reflects the thoughts of many. I do have a suggestion for you. Get some of the modern movie editions of Shakespeare’s plays (some not so modern like “Romeo and Juliet”) and watch them. The plays and themes are as timely and funny today as they were long ago. And much more fun acted out–they were plays after all, not novels.</p>

<p>Gouf, I have. I occasionally enjoy the modern take on them. I occasionally enjoy modern language versions of them. It’s the language I don’t have the patience to get through, like I said originally.</p>

<p>Roman, you and my son. Now my daughter-in-law is an English major and a reader and writer! A girl after my own heart. Each to their own. A good story is like oxygen. I have just discovered Beryl Bainbridge and her ability to say so much in so few words. I read Master Georgie twice, finished it and took it back up again. Reading King Lear made me cry. I saw something and it changed how I read the great Shakespeare. Mythmom, thanks for the list. I am racing to make it through.</p>

<p>Mythmom, what do you think of lists like Philip Ward’s Lifetime Reading that include works from all over the world, different genres and times? I work from that one, among others, but do not in any way feel that I have to read everything suggested. </p>

<p>Looking forward to your list of modern authors. </p>

<p>As to why some books make the “canon” I think sometimes a book which represents an important social advance also can make the list even if the writing is not all that extraordinary. I would use Kate Chopin’s “The Awakening” as an example, although hopefully no one will be offended by that choice. (I liked the book, but I hated the ending.)</p>

<p>Also, I sometimes feel like I should spend more time on analysis of a particular book, but I often just end up reading it and moving on. Hard to know when more study is warranted.</p>

<p>Mythmom, you wrote: “I think a great book challenges our received view of ourselves and teaches us new ways to use language to express what it means to be human.”</p>

<p>I think that is so true. But sometimes younger people don’t have a clear “received view of themselves.” I’ve found that the classics tend to be more and more appealing as I get older.</p>

<p>On the other hand, just today I was reading a novel from the 1990s by an author who is not terrifically well-known, and was blown away by the following passage:</p>

<p>“Free will? Personal decisions? What am I but the knot, the gnarled dark intersection of all these strands? They keep me from acting, and they tug at me to act. Stand fast, and I’ll be torn. But if I want to move, then all of these things must break, they all have to be ripped apart, and that’s the end of me just as much as the end of them.”</p>

<p>That “knot” image…wow. Just wow.</p>