@juillet – it doesn’t matter whether you’re white, black, brown, green, or orange, if you get a 200 on the SAT Math section you’re going to crash and burn in a field that requires mathematical ability. That’s independent of any innate/hidden “talent”. The fact is that you can’t do what’s required right now. At a minimum, you’re going to have to go back and re-take the equivalent of HS math classes to expose that innate/hidden talent. On the other hand, if someone aced the SAT and C&B’d, then you can reasonably assume they have the capability to handle the work. Is this not obvious?
There are many factors. The most important thing your child needs to succeed when going off to college is resilience. You need that when you get a bad grade for the first time or when you have a mean roommate or when your bf/gf breaks up with you. It also helps to have gone away before and had experience living away from your family. That is why sleep away camp is great preparation for college. It helps if you don’t have a mental illness, many of which have onsets around the time one goes to college. It’s helpful to have realistic expectations about what colllege is all about. You need to prepare for the the fact that it may not be “the best 4 yrs of your life”. It helps to not drink and smoke too much. That leads to all kinds of trouble that could lead to crashing and burning. Finally, it’s important to go to a school that is a good academic and social fit. Less problems if you choose wisely.
Great comments from juillet:
"These kids are still writing their stories. As far as I can see, none of them have “crashed and burned.”
“Performance is a spectrum not a category.”
As for standardized tests, there are many problems with using them as a measure of capability, which is why so many schools aren’t requiring or emphasizing them. http://fairtest.org/university/optional
I tell my kids to do well in school because they will need to support themselves after college. I want them to get loans in college even though we’ll probably pay it off for them once they complete. I don’t put in place an unnecessary expectation for them to get into a top college, but I inform them it would better their chances at getting a good job to support themselves. I hope they learn not to take anything for granted and value education and money. Maybe they’ll even set goals for themselves. There are things that are so important that can’t be taught in school and classes.
My parents set 0 expectations and paid for everything even college. Money to me was swiping a credit card I know my parents will pay. In college I could easily have crashed and burned. School and learning was never fun for me until I took a Comp. Sci. course which changed everything. Founding something the child is passionate about is fundamental, something he wants to excel in, not just a subject that will make $$, forced to spend time learning and doing. That is my story. I also have cousins who were in the same situation. My aunts and uncles did not teach them the right values in regards to money and spending only put in the expectation for them to go to college. 3 out of 4 crashed and burned. 1 out of 4 barely made it. 1 of the 4 that dropped out of college is now in SF Academy of Arts after 6 yr break because he finally found his passion. He’s doing very well.
Not saying that it’ll work on every child, not even sure if it’ll work on my own kids, but from my past experiences and knowledge, I’m letting my kids know they need to be independent and make their own living. Meanwhile, I will try my very best to help them find a career that they will love.
The reality is that not everyone finds there passion, especially at the age of 18/19! At that age, most aren’t even aware of the vast array of options.
If someone could actually answer this question they might be very rich. Unfortunately (and maybe fortunately) there’s a genetic code, and a boziliion other factors that come into play, and despite all that, there’s also free will that can also make a difference. Life is both beautiful for all these things and incredibly complex.
Just want to add that I think we need a culture change, so that other paths besides college are honored. That means more funding- and respect- for vocational training, apprenticeships and other on-the-job training programs. Financial stress has made college more career-focused for many anyway, and some of those kids could do just as well going directly to work, or to job training, and in that case would not suffer the feelings of failure and the judgment of others that they “crashed and burned.” The expectation and “dream” that everyone go to college is a relatively recent construct: let’s look at it rather than disrespect those who don’t fit the new mold.
How to handle independence. The kids I knew that had to go for a second try were simply not able to manage their time and responsibilities independently. That drive or teaching for independence is found all through nature. More now than historically more kids land in college never really having operated independently…I chuckle sometimes when I think about being young and being told to be home in time for dinner. As I was raising my kids play-dates well supervised were in coming into vogue.
The trend for micro-managing kids from making sure they wake up get dressed and get to school on time even if they are 16 or 17 to being able to see online if they have done their homework to tracking apps and text messages have all contributed to less kids in college that genuinely have an inability to manage their day to day lives independently.
The greatest gift you can give kids is to allow them more and more independence and allow them more and more to own their successes and failures as they move through their middle teens in my opinion.
@droppedit - I don’t know. I am a big proponent of never letting a problem start so my kid was programmed early, like kindergarten, that some things are non-negotiable. Too many people want to be their kids friend. I would always tell my kid I have plenty of friends, she was not one. Love her to death and she knows it, but knew early my expectations. Guess it was my being raised raised in a military household. By the time she was in high school, I must admit I didn’t have any issues with school. Luckily (and sometimes it is the luck of the draw) she was not a party animal or a drinker. Still isn’t.
But, there were a few times in high school where she over scheduled herself and then had to do homework into the wee hours of the morning. At first I used to feel sorry for her. Then I finally told her that I had my degrees and was done with all nighters. I would then go off to bed and let her fend for herself.
“Failure” for some college kids may be taking some time off and working in an attempt to figure out their lives. Few people in life follow a straight path and it is sometimes those that take a few detours that end up in the best position. I’ve known kids who have left school, gotten jobs, and after awhile realized that they could not afford the lifestyle they aspired to or were used to on a minimum wage salary. If they see their friends in school, they will usually get their act together. If a parent bulldozes everything out the way so the path is always straight and clear, that is when the problems begin. All just my opinions. I know every kid and family is different.
@droppededit Actually, that’s not correct, if I take your meaning more liberally. There’s a lot of emerging research showing that African American, Latino and Native American students with similar potential get lower SAT scores than their white and Asian peers with similar potential. In other words, a black, Latino, or Native student with a 600 on the SAT math section may peform just as well in college math classes as a white or Asian student who scored a 700*. There’s something about the exam (we don’t know what) but disadvantaged students don’t perform to their full potential.
*Made up numbers for the sake of the illustration.
Also not necessarily true. The SAT covers only basic high school math - most of it is learned in 7th through 9th grades, with a sprinkling of concepts learned in 10th grade. Someone acing it doesn’t necessarily mean that they are well-prepared and have the capability to handle the higher-level math needed for math, physics, or engineering majors. (It’s also possible to study and prepare well for the SAT, and the College Board has acknowledged the impact of studying for the test.)
@compmom my daughter that did the college crash and burn picked her path – I didn’t pick it for her. I don’t think you can always blame societal and parental expectations. She squarely failed in her own quest of her own choose all on her own. And sure she can find herself and slowly as she likes but I am not obligated to continue funding it.
After a quarter century in the freshman business, I’m still trying to figure it out. I mean, if I could, WOW, I’d have spot on goals each grant re-write!
While not a terrific indicator of who will persist and who won’t, I’d like to add that students who have had some more adult responsibilities fall into that “just wasn’t ready” category less often. Have they had to deal with what to do when they get sick? (make appointments, understand the whole “co-pay” thing, etc.) Have they been completely responsible for some aspect of self care? (their own laundry, for example). Do they have a bank account and have they been responsible for a bill? Have they had a paying job with an outside employer (not family member or family friend)?
But still, not a sure-fire predictor.
My freshman daughter just got done telling me one of the recruits in her class (there are 6 of them I think) is already on the crash and burn path – partying, skipping class and this all only the 3rd week of school.
Some students get a taste of freedom and go a little crazy at first. Some are able to reign it in once grades start coming in as a wake up call. On the other hand, I’ve known kids who party very hard and still do well academically. Never understood how they do it but they do it.
toomanyteens, I think you must have misunderstood my last post because your response doesn’t really connect to what I intended. I wasn’t referring to parental expectations so much as how college has become a cultural norm that defines “success” for so many, often unfairly. Sorry if I was unclear.
Of course many kids choose their own path, but I was just saying that society’s expectations lead to labeling that path as “crashing.” Indeed, sometimes a sudden onset psych. or medical issue can make it seem like “crashing” but the long term picture does not have to be dire.
I am certainly hoping your daughter experiences a turnaround in the same manner I have seen others do. Or maybe she is on a path that is ok in the long run.
By society’s standards, my oldest has crashed and burned. He’s on Social Security and not working or volunteering. But he’s a warrior who has to fight every day to stay on an even keel, and I’m very proud of him. TBH, I’ve had to rethink my definition of “success” because of him
Exactly, Maine Longhorn 
Great point @MaineLonghorn, success is relative.