Just a thought I had. Princeton is the 2nd least applied Ivy League but it’s one of the top, what’s the reason? I know someone who applied to Harvard and Yale (and other top schools) but not Princeton because they said they felt Princeton was too “uptight”. That’s just one person though. I’m wondering if that’s the case for the others who don’t apply.
Princeton has no business school, no law school, and no medical school. It’s located in the small town of Princeton, New Jersey - population approximately 30,000. So social/cultural life in the immediate area isn’t stellar compared to several of the other Ivies, most of which are located in major cities. Much of the social scene revolves around eating clubs. Traffic congestion and parking are a problem. It’s a great school in a number of ways though, so prospective students should visit and decide for themselves if Princeton is a fit for them.
@Defensor Why do the grad schools matter if people are applying for undergrad?
Many students who are accepted as undergrads to Ivy League schools are fiercely dedicated to their particular school. A number of them would prefer to earn a graduate degree at the same school if possible, for various reasons.
Sometimes what drives application numbers is simply marketing. Years ago, UChgo admitted 40% of applicants b/c their admissions procedure and marketing was very idiosyncratic. A new dean came in and made it a priority to get more applications. He succeeded with new marketing and now UC’s admit rate is rather low – like its peer schools. Did UC suddenly improve? No. It was and still is a fantastic school. They just ginned up more applicants.
The no. of applicants should not affect your view of PTon.
This could be another reason:
"But a study published in July in the scientific journal PLOS One demonstrated that grade inflation helps students find jobs and be more competitive graduate school applicants. Samuel Swift, postdoctoral fellow at the Haas Business School at the University of California, Berkeley and the lead author of the study, said that when businesses and graduate schools consider applicants, they do not consider the grade distribution at the school from which the student is applying.
Swift added that his research showed that two students with the same GPA from both Princeton and Yale would be considered equally by graduate schools and private employers even if the average GPA at Princeton was significantly lower than that at Yale."
I think making generalized statements about how grad schools perceive Princeton doesn’t necessarily apply across all schools and departments. My son (BSE class of 2016) is starting grad school at a very prestigious school, as are two out of his three room mates (#3, a BSE CS grad, was offered a lucrative position at a great firm). All did have good GPAs so grades are certainly important, however in his interviews for grad school, he heard that Princeton grads tend to be very highly regarded as researchers. This is extremely important when seeking funding and I believe was also considered along with GPA throughout the application process. All also had very strong letters of recommendation from profs which tend to factor heavily in many grad school applications.
I agree that generalization can be risky and has its limitation. There are surely many Princeton undergraduates moving on to prestigious graduate schools. But the issue here is about relativity. The OP was asking about why fewer applicants for Princeton because we all know that Princeton has tens of thousands of applicants (more than enough) and the admit rate is extremely low.
So a clearer line of my reasoning is: stricter GPA leads to fewer undergraduate applicants because some (not all) applicants prefer higher GPAs so that their graduate school application outcomes can be optimized (in an ex ante sense). Overall, I think this reasoning is quite sensible.
prof2dad - Grade deflation has officially ended, so anyone applying to the school now does not have to worry about it. Moreover, I know many Princetonians (I’m an a alumna with two kids attending/have attended) and uniformly, they have gotten into top graduate schools and gotten great jobs.
My personal view is that a few factors are at play. Princeton, unfairly I believe, is perceived as more preppy and less liberal than most of the other Ivies - this tends to reduce the pool of students, particularly from the Northeast. Princeton also has eating clubs, which, once again, lead some applicants to conclude that it is stuffier, more preppy etc. Location does play something of a role I suspect -if you want a city, you have Harvard, Yale, Brown and Penn to choose from. And finally, I think that grade deflation did scare some students - not necessarily based on anything factual, but because they were worried it would impact grad school and jobs.
midatlmom - I agree with everything you said. Once again, Princeton has more than enough applicants to build an outstanding class.
I’m not sure which other Ivies have this, but Princeton has a senior thesis which may turn some off. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe your entire senior year is dedicated to a “PhD” level piece of work.
"So social/cultural life in the immediate area isn’t stellar compared to several of the other Ivies, most of which are located in major cities. "
Only 3/8 of Ivy League schools are in “major cities.”
Hanover: not major.
Ithaca: not major.
Providence: not major
New Haven: not major
Princeton: not major
Philly: major
NYC: major
Boston: major
Princeton is located in the NY metropolitan area and is ~1 hour away from both NYC and Philadelphia.
Its location is just fine relative to other schools and is probably closer to big cities than Cornell, Dartmouth, Yale, and Brown are.
“Many students who are accepted as undergrads to Ivy League schools are fiercely dedicated to their particular school. A number of them would prefer to earn a graduate degree at the same school if possible, for various reasons.”
Many students would prefer not to stay in the same place for 8 years.
Universities don’t like having students for undergrad and graduate school either.
It’s called “academic/intellectual inbreeding” and not something encouraged.
I think it is due to the combination of several reasons: Princeton is known for its very intense and all-comsuming academics, relatively harsh grading, it has a reputation for being quite waspy, elitist etc a and also it is in a kind of boring (although beautiful) location. The combination of all these on top of the fact that Princeton does not court prospective applicants super aggressively (think Chicago style), results in a slightly lower numbers of apps than one might expect given the quality and prestige of the school. Still don’t think this matters for any practical reason. Princeton is and will continue to be the top for undergraduate academics.