I am the mother of grown sons. Girls started calling and asking them out when they were in their early teens, so we talked quite a bit about the right and wrong way to decline date invitations and encouraged them just to accept, because it didn’t mean they had to spend the rest of their lives with that girl. They begged me to screen their calls and finally let me know they were worried those girls wanted to have sex with them and they weren’t really ready for that kind of commitment, because somehow they had the idea it was going to be a commitment. They felt they would be leading those girls on. And one of them was gay and really didn’t want to to be put in that particular situation. The resolution was that for a number of years, I became the unreasonable mother who didn’t allow her sons to date or girls to call the house. This was so long ago, cell phones weren’t yet the primary means of communication.
A couple of those girls are still keeping up with my sons. One of them contacted one son, once more, before she announced her engagement last year.
My daughter-in-law is one of the smartest women I have ever met. She picked out her husband, my son, and made it all happen. He was just along for the ride, but completely delighted. I would perhaps have been concerned, except I already had evidence he knew how to refuse a woman’s advances. I can not imagine my daughter-in-law standing outside a fraternity house or club and waiting to see if she was “allowed” to enter. I can imagine her in charge of the door.
All my sons’ straight female college friends are like my daughter-in-law. They all picked their future partners, as far as I can tell, and I watched most of the relationships unfold over a few years time. And this includes half a dozen young women with extremely traditional immigrant parents.
While I never believed I could marry anyone I set my eyes on, I was pretty sure I had a large number of men to choose from and very deliberately made that choice. My mother picked out my father at age 16, soon after she started college, at a party at his fraternity house. They didn’t marry for seven years, but had an understanding the whole time.
Both my grandmothers picked their husbands. One told me the story; she eloped at 16. The other left me her letters.
At least one of my sister-in-laws picked her husband. That brother never really even dated anyone else. One Christmas he told us he was dating her and probably some time in the distant future he would propose. Within a month, they were engaged. One of her close friends got engaged over the holiday and SIL decided she was getting married first. And she did. Three decades later he still thinks she hung the moon.
I find it interesting that some posters think hosting parties puts the power in the hands of the guys. My experience was the opposite. The occasional times that a guy treated a sister wrong - well he ended up being known as a " bad guy" not just to our sisters , but to our friends in the other sororities. Word got around and those guys found themselves none too popular after that
Well, in my day the bad boy fraternity parties, where we knew something might be in the punch, were the most popular.
I certainly have never understood the glamour and appeal of the bad boys but it seems to be enduring. It’s not just in fiction. Women pursue men in prison they have never met.
Oh come on alh, women do not pursue men in prison they have never met; pathologically damaged women may pursue “bad boys”. More often, young women may have one or two encounters with this type of guy out of curiosity and then grow out of it when they become bored and disgusted. Please don’t sell the entire sex short by claiming that this is typical female behavior. This is the sort of rationalization that self-described “nice guys” (who are usually anything but) give each other to explain their lack of success in dating/relationships.
But I am thinking about the popularity of 50 Shades… It’s at least a fantasy that a whole lot of women enjoy. That, of course, is different than real life.
I don’t think the bad boy fraternities are in any danger of being shut down in my lifetime. However, I can hope.
disclaimer: I haven’t actually read the Shades books, so maybe they aren’t a good example. I don’t know how bad a boy he actually is. I could give other literary examples, but maybe not so hugely and mainstream popular at this particular moment in time.
adding: vampires: Bill & Eric, Edward, Lestat. I’ve read those or at least seen the movies/shows.
I have always been attracted to and married the quintissential alpha male, but I think that is different from the “bad boy.” While H is extremely aggressive and very smart, I cannot imagine him treating women poorly, even in his younger years. He has a soft spot for women and tends to put them on a pedestal. My girlfriends adore him. Wondering if men realize how far just being a “good guy” can take them with women?
I grew up with brothers and a father who was quick to give me advice on my dating life. Looking back their advice served me well. I learned to keep my standards high and to discount what guys “said” and pay attention to what they “did” in evaluating the seriousness of my relationships. I believe emotionally healthy women will not subject themselves to men that disrespect them. So really at the end of the day the power does lie with us - if we are treated poorly we walk away. If they value the relationship they will straighten out and if they don’t then best you know that and move on.
I have never equated alpha with bad boy. Sometimes I wonder if I even know any beta males. It might be a vacation.
I guess my definition of bad boy is one who treats you poorly and sometimes you think you’ll be able to change him, against all evidence to the contrary. A few friends married these boys, but the marriages didn’t last too long. They all have very successful second marriages. It is certainly a valid argument for women waiting to marry til they get it out of their system.
If the bad boy fraternities weren’t attractive to women on some level, no one would go to those parties. Those have never been the only parties. I totally agree college women have all the power here. I think it’s a deliberate choice. I may be wrong. I frequently am and I would certainly be much happier not believing that.
I thought we were talking about fraternities and sororities having different policies regarding alcohol. All of the fraternity’s I knew served alcohol, but that didn’t necessarily make them " bad boy" fraternities.
FWIW - Bad boys never appealed to me anyway.
Vice President for Student Affairs Larry Moneta wrote in an email addressed to the families of students Wednesday afternoon that the student who was hospitalized is expected to recover fully.
It’s at least a fantasy that a whole lot of women enjoy. That, of course, is different than real life.