<p>“Did JFK come out and tell the American people - or his wife - “by the way, while my wife was in the hospital I was having an affair with not one, but several women at the same time”? No, of course, he lied too. Every man that has ever cheated on his wife has lied (and so has every woman who has ever cheated). It is part and parcel of the affair.”</p>
<p>…</p>
<p>“So, I want every pundit who condemns John Edwards today to tell me what the difference between him and McCain is and why John McCain shouldn’t also be run out of politics for his adulterous affairs and what he did to his first wife.”</p>
<p>ID…the point is that some observe you making this issue over Democrats when the fact is, behavior of this nature is also in the background of the Republican candidate, as well as others of that party. It is not truly about the party but about individuals.</p>
<p>When McCain’s behavior led his marriage (and life in general) to fall apart, he was fresh back from living 5 and 1/2 years in a 5x5 cage as an abused POW…huge difference.</p>
<p>McCain has been completely up-front with the mistakes he made and with condemning himself for his failings. His ex-wife has publicly forgiven him, and as to that period in his life, it would be very hard to judge someone coming off a five-year separation and not being able to make a marriage work. I’m not sure I could. there’s also the glaring presence of a beautiful baby with questionable paternity.</p>
<p>And Edwards has never had to deal with adversity in his life? His 17-year old son died in a car accident. Ask any parent who has had to deal with the death of a child which they’d choose - 5 1/2 years in a cage or losing their child.</p>
<p>I’m not trying to dismiss what Edwards did, but I have done research on the implications of what losing a child does to a marriage, and it’s not pretty. Two or more major losses in a family (of which losing a child is one) leads to divorce in 80% of marriages.</p>
<p>It has nothing to do with adversity in life, Teri (I lost a sister in my childhood, which took my parents permanently out of living so I am beyond sympathetic) it’s just too different circumstances. Five years apart would devastate any marriage, and McCain has always been the first one to speak ill of himself with regard to his first wife. He didn’t wedge himself into a hotel bathroom. There’s also the fact that in the age of the internet and cable tv, we know every little detail of the Edwards scandal in real time.</p>
<p>But people seem to be excusing McCain’s behavior because he spent 5 1/2 years in a cage. While that is horrific, people experience all kinds of horrific things in their lives (otherwise there wouldn’t be the slew of counselors that deal specificially with PTSD) as you have witnessed via your own family. </p>
<p>All I’m trying to say here is that it wouldn’t be unusual at all for their marriage to be challenged. And, I also have to add in that people go through experiences just as traumatic as Edwards and McCain, and are able to keep their marriages in tact. </p>
<p>It’s the equivalent of having the most devoted, caring parents in the world raising someone like Timothy McVeigh or having the most cruel, uncaring, neglectful parents in the world producing a child like Mother Teresa.</p>
<p>That’s true, but it does not make the Edwards’ case any worse than McCain (though I do feel some sympathy for McCain, on the grounds you cite).</p>
<p>Teri: I don’t want to engage in comparing degrees and kinds of pain. McCain was not just “in a cage” anyway. Edwards is not using his dead son to make excuses. He attributes his behavior to narcissism, and this rings true to me. He engaged in exactly the kind of behavior for which he had excoriated Clinton, and for pretty much the same reasons. For a man contemplating running for POTUS (this was the reason for having Hunter make the videos), he engaged in mind-bogglingly risky behavior, like Gary Hart: “Catch me if you can.” Well, he’s been caught. And if Elizabeth knew about it long time ago and covered it up so he could run for POTUS, I don’t want her to speak at the convention.</p>
<p>Timing. If Edwards had had an affair 20 years ago I don’t think it would be as big a deal. if McCain had had an affair in 2006 and was hiding in the mens loo in a hotel a few months ago after visiting the woman in question it would be a big deal.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is excusing McCain, it’s just hard to condemn him any more than he’s already done himself because he agrees and is first on the bandwagon! That’s all I’m saying. That McCain has taken the conflict out of the issue by, himself, taking the anti-McCain position. He did something that wasn’t moral or honorable or kind. It was ugly and sleazy. But understandable. As I said on the other thread, I can understand for Edwards, too. I can imagine that he was afraid, lonely and in need. I can imagine that Elizabeth wasn’t always feeling well and had things on her mind. Both were probably not able to be completely supportive of the partner in such a terrible time. As some of you know, I had a bad diagnosis right around the time I joined CC. My husband was afraid and i was afraid of other things and we both could have used someone to lean on, but we weren’t necessarily the right person for each other at that time because we both had so much invested in the diagnosis, separately. I don’t judge, but I do see that there is a difference in time and circumstance. Had McCain been having his affair in this age, it would be very different because I’m sure we’d know a lot more details. You can’t really compare something that happened in the earlier era in terms of coverage.</p>
<p>Why didn’t ID denounce the Democratic party when he was fully supporting a Clinton? How could he support a candidate who knowingly lived with a liar and cheater?</p>
<p>It is about party. It’s perfectly acceptable for Democrats to have baby mamas. Marriage is so last century. What Democratic leader is going to call out Edwards? Jesse Jackson, Jr.? James Clyburn? </p>
<p>This is not the case for Republicans. Republicans do not believe out of wedlock baby mamas are acceptable.</p>
<p>Spoken like a true Democrat. Blame the woman, right? Let me guess, the Democrats are going to attack E. Edwards saying it’s all her fault. The she forced John into needing a baby mama when her “claws came out, periodically”?</p>
<p>The paternity so far is not proven. Though that is besides the point (though you take it as fact). But it isn’t about fathering a child out of wedlock simply. People are discussing affairs. Surely Republicans have had affairs. People are talking about lying to the public. Surely, Republicans have lied to the public. I don’t see it as a party issue, but human one.</p>
<p>But how do we not know that a year from now, five years from now, or ten years from now, Edwards, too, will not condemn himself? It seems like his actions are being judged against McCain’s condemnation of himself, which obviously did not happen right away. </p>
<p>zoosermom - as an aside, I have been AMAZED in the work I do, the number of ex spouses (remarried at that) who make huge sacrifices to support their exes who are on hospice(who may have never remarried and don’t have anyone to help care for them) . It makes for some complicated family dynamics sometimes, but it just reinforces my beliefs of the power of forgiveness and redemption.</p>
<p>teri, just as I’ve been saying the two situations aren’t comparable because of the time and distance, they just aren’t. It’s not republicans picking on Edwards, they’re just two different circumstances.</p>