<p>A little bit off-topic here, but I just finished watching The Deer Hunter. What an incredible experience our military suffered through over there (of course I know it’s fiction, but it brought back a lot of memories from my brother serving two tours as a Marine). My heart goes out & I salute all the Vietnam Vets out there - thank you thank you thank you. </p>
<p>What an amazing bunch of young people we have serving in the military right now. I love them for stepping up to the plate and fighting this WOT - God willing it will all be over soon.</p>
<p>I’m just so angry and frustrated that there IS such a thing as Muslim Extremists who want to kill us just b/c we’re Americans & don’t believe as they do. Thank God there are soldiers, sailors, marines & airmen who will take the fight to the ME and save us from standing guard in our own neighborhoods.</p>
<p>And John McCain sat in a ****hole for 5 years while so many people did anything they could to avoid serving or get home ASAP. Seems like you’d either come out of that bitter & resentful of your country & its leaders - or LOVE it with a depth that only a true patriot can understand. It blows my mind what those POWs went thru - I don’t even like to spend one night w/out my own pillow!</p>
<p>Say what you will about his policies, but there is no denying that McCain has sacrificed for his country beyond what many of us can even comprehend. There is NO DOUBT that he loves this country (& I believe that influences all his political decisions).</p>
<p>I know this has now turned into a commercial for JM (as my posts often do!), but I can certainly excuse a lot about the downfall of his 1st marriage after an experience such as he endured. It’s a wonder he didn’t go thru 3 or 4 marriages! I’m happy for him finding true love w/ Cindy.</p>
<p>There is NO doubt that JM is a hero. I do not think anyone on CC (or elsewhere that I have read) disputes that fact.
You yourself remind us that there are many many heroes among the veterans of the Vietnam War (and of other wars). But while they all earn our gratitude and admiration, that does not make them qualified to be POTUS.
In the context of the presidential campaign, the operative clause in you post is “Say what you will about his policies.” His policies are the things we should be debating, but are not, and have not been over many many threads and posts.
But I am concerned about many of JM’s policies. I am also concerned about his management style. Mark Halperin, who is not a liberal, introduced a NYT article as follows: </p>
<p>The Deer Hunter went from fiction into absurdity when, in the post-Viet Nam scenes, they had Robert De Niro wearing a beard while still serving in the Army and wearing his uniform.</p>
<p>So he bombed and straifed innocent civilians, and was shot down. Life saved by the very civilians he villified and attempted to kill. Made propaganda broadcasts for the North Vietnamese. Gave them the names of the Packers offensive line, oh wait, it was the Steelers defensive line. </p>
<p>He had a very unfortunate experience, and we should all have compassion for him. Hero? Hardly. Or at least an exercise in “stretching”…</p>
<p>I disagree both with marite & with mini. I also would not call him a ‘hero.’ But what I would say is that he participated in a war that he personally believed was not immoral. (As opposed to the soldier who believes that a war or an action is immoral but ‘just follows orders.’) As a participant, he followed a code of honor as it applied to his fellow soldiers & the country he represented. In that context, he behaved honorably in a personal way, even though many people can reasonably object as to the morality of that war effort in general.</p>
<p>Outside of war, I do not find him to be a person of outstanding political leadership, & I oppose most of his positions. It’s for those reasons I do not support him in the election, not because he was or was not a ‘hero.’</p>
<p>At the very least, we can say that John McCain has been tested during times of great stress and has behaved honorably. His decisions and actions were proper and reflected well upon his country & himself.</p>
<p>Other than this campaign, when has the other candidate had an opportunity to demonstrate his mettle? He is an unknown. Further, I question his convictions on any issue - name one thing on which his position has not been wishy-washy or fluctuating.</p>
<p>He learned so much through his so-called “heroism” that he now votes consistently to deny veterans who went through similar experiences (and who like him suffer from PTSD as well as traumatic brain injuries) the benefits to recover in ways he apparently never did.</p>
<p>I think he is entitled to the same level of compassion he offers to his fellow soldiers.</p>
<p>“As a participant, he followed a code of honor as it applied to his fellow soldiers & the country he represented.”</p>
<p>As already noted and referenced, there were many soldiers in similar situations who refused to act as propaganda tools for their captors. They are less forgiving than I am.</p>
<p>I do not consider JM a hero because he was shot down, I consider him one because, having already endured torture, he CHOSE to stay with other POWs for another four hellish years. He did so in full knowledge of what would happen to him, but he did not want to be given preferential treatment. It took a lot of courage, and those of us who were safely in college at the time owe it to him to acknowledge it. I have plenty of schoolmates who managed to weasel out of serving by faking health problems they did not have.</p>
<p>Having said that, I am more concerned about his policies and his management (sic) style). Take away his cell phone!</p>
<p>Here’s a link to Carl Cameron’s interview w/ Bud Day, the most decorated service man since General Mac Arthur, who just happened to be McCain’s roommate in the Hanoi Hilton:</p>
<p>Mini, I must admit that I am a little surprised by your repetitive use of words crippled wife and the squeeze. I am not sure if you are aware that these words are generally regarded as pejorative when used for people and especially for women. Admittedly, I am new on this forum and not particularly interested in political discussions, so perhaps these expressions merely serve to enforce your point. Undeniably, the same exact terms used by a man would clearly be perceived as derisive and contemptuous, whereas, coming from a petite woman like you, they can be chosen to express concern and support for these women, especially in the context of this thread. However, in spite of your good intentions, please consider that the crippled wife most likely wouldnt appreciate you supporting her in such way.</p>
<p>^^^
Are you sure you are not mistaken? I have seen several posts by mini, and I was convinced that she is a woman. Trust me, it gets one to know one; a man would never say that he is owned by someone. Besides, can you imagine a man who would voluntarily choose mini as a screen name?</p>
<p>“It wasn’t one affair. It was multiple affairs over a period of seven years, while he was still married, which continued until he divorced his crippled wife and married the squeeze who gave him his entry into politics, and the money to do it.”</p>
<p>He had multiple affairs with multiple women over a period of seven years, which continued until he divorced his highly disabled wife and married the one woman who, besides being very attractive, could also also give entry into politics, and could bankroll it for him, now that it had become clear that making admiral wasn’t in the cards for him. All the outcome of his PTSD of course.</p>
<p>As to my gender, you can read it as you like.</p>
<p>“US in Iraq will always be the hostile aggressive occupiers.”</p>
<p>They always will be, because they are, though at least they’ve completed the ethnic cleansing that was their latest mission, with five million refugees, and disarmed the Al-Qaeda in Iraq that they created and armed to begin with.</p>
<p>Rumsfeld must be advising Putin because the latter is doing the same thing with Georgia. Russia was not threaten or attacked by Georgia just like Iraq never threatened or attack the USA.</p>