<p>ag54-
Sadly, it is stereotypical comments like the ones above about the “superior” north and the “inferior” culture of the south that promulgates this belief. It is not founded in fact. Many of the larger southern metropolitan areas (Miami, Atlanta to name a few) have phenomenal arts and artists. Many of the current top musicians hail from these cities, live in these cities and have studios in these cities. The cultural difference issue is more one of urban/rural, not northern/southern. To be blunt, white trash is white trash, regardless of where they live or what their ethnic or sociocultural background is. Are there still rednecks in the south with an “old south” mentality? Sadly, yes. But are there “northern rednecks”? Yes. The difference-- they don’t watch Nascar (jk). </p>
<p>It amazes me how many cc students refuse to consider a school like Rice because “it is in Texas”. One quick trip to Houston is an eye-opener for students (and parents) who think they will see tumbleweed rolling down Main Street. Makes you wonder how many people get their opinions from television shows instead of from reality. (And ldmom-- people being clueless as to how to disembark from a chairlift are not all Texans, they are just novices).</p>
<p>Zooser-
That is fascinating (and sad) about the unequal allocation of funds and appropriation of resources. Do you happen to have a link to Sen. Webb’s discussion of this?</p>
<p>And ag54- I guess some born and bred southerners may have left their charm in the south when they left. Here, we really don’t think in terms of the old south and the carpetbaggers. At least I haven’t seen it in the 33 years I’ve been here.</p>
<p>I’m from London and have been going to school in Georgia for the last 3 years and I absolutely love it! I’ve been to many states in the South and could see my self living in that area for a long time!</p>
<p>I just came back to London last week to take a semester off and I miss Georgia already! My mum came to visit to for 10 days and loved it aswell!</p>
<p>I think its because its so different from what I’m used to that I’ve fallen in love with the South!</p>
<p>No I don’t, but I do have the book “Born Fighting” in which it’s discussed. I’d be happy to send it to you, though! I found it fascinating as a northerner to see that there actually is a whole 'nother point of view that doesn’t completely mesh with what I’ve always been taught.</p>
<p>Thanks, zoos. I’ll go check it out at Borders or Barnes & Noble. But that was very kind of you to offer! Are you sure you don’t have some of that southern hospitality in you?</p>
<p>A few off-the-top-of-my-head observations, having lived in the north and the south:</p>
<p>1) More channels show Nascar and fishing down here. Up north it’s hockey.
2) Northerners talk faster
3) Northerners used to be more aggressive drivers, but the south has caught up on that one
4) Better bagels up north
5) More freestanding bakeries up north
6) People up north have never heard of “chocolate chess pie” and don’t know what they are missing
7) Southern hospitality is real (but northerners can pull it out when they need it-- eg 9/11 and afterwards)
8) Northerners seem to be more excited by their professional sports teams-- southerners by their college sports teams (no comments about the state of southern professional sports teams please)
9) More southerners like country music (if northerners like it, they are closet CW music lovers)
10) There are more pedestrians in the north
11) More areas seem “cleaner” and “newer” in the south, but we dont have the charming new england towns, architecture and meandering roads.
12) There are just as many bohemian types down here-- they are just more spread out</p>
<p>Others???</p>
<p>Oh wait- forgot one-- the roads (highways, etc) are generally in better state of repair (we have our share of potholes, but not as much snow, ice and such to wreak havoc on them)</p>
<p>Well I do love NASCAR??!!
Seriously, though, my dad’s family came from the Ohio/Kentucky area and fought on both sides of the Civil War, although I’ve never met any of those relatives.</p>
<p>There are more “rude” people people up north (IMO), and people down here don’t use the expression “you’re being fresh” when talking to a child who is being a wise guy (another northern expression).</p>
<p>No one up north asks “how’s your mamma and them”? (to be truthful, I’ve never heard anyone utter it here except when making fun of a stereotype)</p>
<p>There are similar dichotomies between San Francisco/LA and Mac/Windows users.</p>
<p>A large part of the persona of San Franciscans is that Southern Californians are shallow, self-absorbed, surfers who are anti-intellectual. LA in particular is a barren hell that they would never consider a place of any virtues at all. The average Southern Californian’s opinion of San Francisco? “It’s OK. They’ve got a nice bridge.” The animosity runs one way.</p>
<p>You can apply the same argument to Mac users: it’s not enough that they appreciate their computers, they ALSO have to hate and demean Windows computers. The response of the average Windows user? “Macs are OK, I guess. Why do they charge extra for another mouse button?”</p>
<p>“Many of the larger southern metropolitan areas (Miami, Atlanta to name a few) have phenomenal arts and artists.”</p>
<p>And they are largely supported by Northerners. I have played in three professional symphony orchestras in the South, and also for the best southern Opera productions. The people involved in these pursuits are almost all northerners, or people whose recent ancestors hail from the North. And they play to a great deal of transplants from the North. Very few of these groups’ movers hail from longtime southerners, those of old southern culture. The Atlanta Symphony, for example, was started in 1945 by a guy from Brooklyn. Today, northerners and other non-traditional southerners reign in that organization so that it really is not a Southern institution – at least not culturally. It is Northern, and it is perhaps the best orchestra the South offers today. This is what Northerners have been doing to the South since Reconstruction.</p>
<p>Contrast this to the truly great world class orchestras in America’s Northern regions: the New York Phil, Boston Symphony, Chicago Symphony, The Met, Cleveland, Philadelphia, even Rochester and Cincinnati. There are very many little orchestras in America’s northern areas that rival the very best professional southern orchestras. The same is true of America’s universities, and its museums.</p>
<p>I am sure many people “love” the South. I have never claimed no one does. Indeed, there are many black people who love the South despite that fought to protect the right to own them. I aim to deal with the idea that rejecting the South is the same morally as rejecting a person’s race. It is not. It is my belief that when it comes to producing the most potent intellectual culture in America, the South largely is inferior to the North, and for this reason I prefer the North over the South. There is nothing abominable about preferring one culture, or cultural attribute, over another. We do this all the time.</p>
<p>It’s pretty clear that you prefer the north, dross. That’s fine. As for music- perhaps many of the members of the metropolitan philharmonic orchestras were trained in the north, in the conservatories. I suspect at least a generation ago there were (and probably still are) a greater concentration of these in the north. I don’t disagree that the south has catching up to do. But what about current hip hop, rap and other contemporary musicians? Many hail from and record in Atlanta.</p>
<p>I think that music, with its focus on irresponsible sex and violence (it seems awfully predatory where women are concerned), has harmed blacks more than helped us. I think it harms those who significantly come into contact with it, as does much of Southern culture. It comes right out of the despair that was created for blacks deliberately, largely by Southerners. It is nothing anyone should be proud of, though I admit it is very potent.</p>
<p>And what about the wonderful New Orleans Jazz and blues music? Not too many guys from Brooklyn are playing blues, I don’t believe (though I am sure you can find some). </p>
<p>Washdad-
Good points. My younger s is switching from Windows to Mac (just ordered a macbook as his graduation present, which comes with a $100 rebate if you buy a printer too, should anyone care). What does that make him?? A mac turncoat in a sea of Windows users in our family. Oh the inhumanity…</p>
<p>So Usher, Ludacris, Tony Braxton, Whitney Houston-- these are all bad influences on the culture?? Not everyone in Atlanta is a Rapper. It doesnt matter whether or not you like their music (I don’t usually blast Rap in my car on the way home, but I don’t listen to the classical station either) - the fact of the matter is, there is plenty of “art” int he south. Perhaps just not to your liking. I like folk art. there is a lot down here. Very charming. But I also like the masterpieces and contemporary art too.</p>
<p>As an aside, I find it ironic that you are touting the Jewish guy from Brooklyn, and I am mentioning the R&B guys from the hood!</p>
<p>In the South culture is more about family and church. I’d venture both run stronger in the South. The north is about store-bought culture. In the south people will make music on their porch. In the north you pay to watch somebody do it and feel superior.l</p>
<p>“And what about the wonderful New Orleans Jazz and blues music? Not too many guys from Brooklyn are playing blues, I don’t believe (though I am sure you can find some).“</p>
<p>For all its greatness, The Blues also comes out of the despair created deliberately for blacks. It is just one of the many forms blacks developed to express what Southern culture was doing to them. The term exists because the music that goes by it employs a lot of “blue” notes, or “sad” notes. We are talking flat thirds, fifths and sevenths. Where hip-hop expresses anger, sexual stupidity and licentiousness that flowed from Southern culture, The Blues expresses sadness and longing, later to express the same stupidity we find in hip-hop. We can and should be proud of the music in its pure form, its power and effectiveness of expression. We ought not be proud of the Southern culture that harmed folks so much that it gave birth to this sort of lament. There is no defense for it, yet the south still defends it.</p>
<p>The South produced Tom Jefferson and James Madison. So I am not claiming the people are inherently inferior. We need to understand this. But the South broke alliance with Jefferson’s and Madison’s sort of reasoning when it literally fought and died to defend what it claims was its “rights”, specifically its rights to own human beings, black ones in particular. It went to great lengths to denounce America, denounce the very reason America exists, even America’s philosophical foundation, and then aimed to enshrine into its own constitution a new foundation based not on liberty, but on oppression. Today, old southerners still defend this most disastrous philosophy – and this is why the South is inferior.</p>
<p>More “foriegners,” but not a yankee in sight.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Founded by a noted Texas philanthropist (with a very unfortunate name;)).</p>
<p>We must love something besides NASCAR. And BTW - the money that is funneled into these companies is Texan - not northern, and the people that they perform for are Texan as well.</p>
<p>Drosselmeier - go away, you are an obnoxious snob…</p>
<p>So whats your point, dross?? That these are inferior because they came from despair? How many of the world renouned artists created masterpieces that depicted despair. So what-- art is art-- regardless of its foundation. I guess there is one more thing about the north that I forgot- there seem to be a higher concentration of supercilious snobs there. I am glad I left.</p>
<p>‘How’s your mama and them?’ may be a close second. And I while I have a Chess Pie recipe, I have never heard of Chocolate Chess Pie. Also, it wouldn’t be the South without…</p>
<p>Red-eye Gravy
Flat Biscuits
Co-cola
Old Jaguar Sedans with Chevrolet Engines
Country Roads without Route Numbers
Poke Salat
Mason Jars</p>