But it doesn’t make education expensive because German students are tracked at an earlier point. No one in the US would sign up for that - “free college, but if we determine you aren’t college level you’ll be tracked into trade school”. So not going to happen in this country.
If tracking occurs & it is fairly well known, then parents often guide & influence their children. Happens in a lot of cultures & countries.
To me, the bigger issue with respect to student loans is why is it so many people are unable to find jobs that pay enough to make college worth it (and thus be able to pay of their student loans). Average debt level is about $35,000 (somewhat lower if you remove the high end debt holders – many of whom are professional school students who presumably are making sufficient money to repay their debts). Given what historically has been the college dividend (increased lifetime earnings), $35k in student loans should not be a problem and should be a wise investment.
But to the extent we have large numbers of kids for whom that is not the case, we should examine why and look to solutions. Wiping away student loans (and making public college tuition “free” for everyone) does nothing to address those underlying issues. And ultimately it would likely make matters worse.
Yeeees, but a trend created by the US as a result of WW2.
FWIW Average debt level of law school graduates is about $120,000. Many law school students accumulate student loan debt at or near $200,000.
Not sure, but I suspect that student loan debt of medical students is even higher than that for law students–although job security & income is more predictable as a physician than for law grads.
Absolutely accurate imo. I have friends & relatives in that system.
Given the current legal environment, I think those debt levels are insane. Given the competition out there and the smaller number of slots available, I think its a real gamble to think you will get and hold a job that allows you to service those debt levels.
But hey, I can see that bet and raise you on another: my kid wants to be a vet. Higher debt levels and lower pay. So we have that going for us. LOL
For doctors, I think the investment/debt levels make a lot more sense.
@one1ofeach: I have to keep repeating this for some reason but anyway:
In the German system, you can go to uni even if you are put on the lowest track at an early age because there are now multiple pathways to uni that are open to anyone.
@saillakeerie: Because a lot of graduate programs are simply cash cow programs for colleges.
People definitely should do their research before they invest.
For a number of reasons, grad programs are no longer the cash cows they may have been at one time.
Exactly! And that’s why it won’t work here.
We allow anyone to try for college.
Seems like many of the online programs are. Recorded lectures, very large cohorts, etc.
I’m wondering how many people have stopped making student loan payments because they think all the “cancel debt” hoopla they’re hearing means that their loans will be canceled so why bother making $250-1000 a month payments now?
I don’t think that is a big part of it because their decisions to take the loans would have happened 3-10 years ago. I don’t think there has been a big drop off in loan repayment in the last 2 years since all the ‘forgive all loans’ talk has started.
My own kids are not allowed to believe this forgiveness talk. One is an engineer and has no trouble paying her loan (about $200/mo). The other is a minimum wage worker but has to make her payments ($225 for one, $40 for another). I haven’t even encouraged her to get on an IBR schedule as I just think she needs to dig in and pay.
“We allow anyone to try for college.”
As I mentioned before on this thread, anyone in Germany these days is allowed to try for college as well, no matter where they were tracked when young, so long as they put in the work.
So, evidently, a bunch of people really really really really really really want to believe that in Germany, you aren’t allowed to go to college/uni if you got on the wrong track at a young age, even though that is untrue these days and I’ve said so multiple times on this thread. I find this psychological phenomenon both odd and interesting. What explains it? Moral superiority? Motivated beliefs? Both? Something else? Can someone explain this to me?
I do not think that anyone is concerned about student loan payments of just $200 or $300 a month. That’s equivalent to giving up about one Starbucks drink a day.
Ok. The US did not “start” the trend because of WW 2. We reacted to a situation. Good lord.
The constitution allows us to pursue happiness, not guarantee happiness. If you borrow for anything you pay it back. If you don’t you have appropriate credit consequences.
Helping people with little access to information to stay out of trouble with a cap makes sense. If the lending cap is too restrictive for some, forget these switching to European approach methods. Never. Going. To. Happen.
Well, many Americans, according to your earlier post, think they’re special, so why not morally superior also? ?
Or maybe others get your point, but just don’t agree that it’s relevant. Don’t see it as a viable option here.
$30k at 7% interest over 10 years is about $350/month. $320/mo if the interest rate is 5%.