I have one kid IS and one OOS, so I do understand on some level what lostaccount is talking about ( we are in the same state). However, my IS kid would likely struggle academically if she attended one of these big powerhouse OOS schools, so staying IS at a small school worked out great for her. I do not feel that her education has been compromised in any way. She has attended professional workshops and has seen several guest speakers in her field, she has gotten close with her professors, she is getting hands on experience in her field both on and off campus, and is in a program that is certified by the professional organization. All of her professors are nationally certified in her field. Additionally, she has made great friends and enjoys the amenities that her school has to offer. Could she have gone OOS to a school that is just a " regular" OOS school? Yes- but we visited a few and she liked her IS choices better. Her IS school has amazing internships- Madison Square Garden, ESPN, American Express, NFL, NBL, American Heart Association- just to name a few. For her, this was the best choice. Kids come to her school from OOS because of one program that the school is known for.
My other kid would be miserable IS, and our IS schools are not for her. She is at a powerhouse OOS school and is having experiences that are above and beyond my dreams.
@twogirls - exactly. It’s all about fit - what is best for the individual student. It is difficult to make a poor decision when the student and family approach the process with the student’s needs as the central focus of the college search. There are so many excellent schools in this country.
@twogirls@Themclos — Fit is one of the highest elements of selecting a school. BUT it must be from a choice already narrowed by financial realities. Of course the best situation is if the student’s enthusiastic choice is also the financial safety.
@digmedia - no disagreement here. Each family must establish their own financial criteria, based upon their own situation and priorities. What works and makes sense for one is irrelevant for another.
If there isn’t a financial fit, then it really isn’t a fit. I agree that financial constraints need to be established early on to identify schools that realistically should be considered for “fit”.
To add on from #200: virtually everyone I’ve ever interacted with in real life knows that I’d be absolutely miserable if I had stayed in state. And considering the aspirations of my younger siblings, I know they’d hate to stay in state as well.
blprof and austinmshauri: Yes there were normal schools: Many normal schools were incorporated into the state system. Their focus was to teach teachers not to advance scholarship, research and graduate level academics. They were essentially trade training. Few people believe the early mission of the SUNY system was to actually provide the highest quality of “educational services”. But even that statement does not imply that the goal was to build outstanding universities. Education is but one of the three major missions of universities. But even if one can find a statement suggesting that the SUNY system was founded with the goal of establishing a top notch university system that includes universities as good as those found in other states (like Michigan), that did not happen and was not the stated mission expressed by most of those involved over the first 40 years of SUNY’s existence. That isn’t to say the mission isn’t a reasonable one. There are plenty of top notch research universities in the northeast. The SUNY mission is simply different.
blprof, you’ve made assumptions that are so far off they are laughable. How many people in the SUNY system, students, faculty, staff, administrators and graduates have I talked with? Thousands. I know the system, many (but not all) of the schools very very well, the history, the administrators for many of the schools (but not all), current graduate and college student and former students at all levels. i don’t write from a vantage point of ignorance. I don’t comment on everything and anything. I only comment on things I know about, some of which I’d be considered an expert about by most people.
I am not the first to say that the SUNY system is far from outstanding. Most knowledgable people in education would agree with me. I am not saying a student could not get a good education at a SUNY. I am saying that the experience students get at any SUNY is dissimilar to the experience that can be gotten at the best flagships in the country. I perceive there to be a big disconnect between those flagships and what SUNY offers students. NY students who have never been on the campus of the kind of flagship I am talking about (Ann Arbor, Chapel Hill, Uva, Urbana, & more) would be astounded by the experiences offered by these other schools. But that does not mean that a graduate of SUNY won’t “do” well and it does not mean that NY students at SUNYs don’t like their school. Many love their college experience.
For those NYers who are used to their everything being Number 1, I’m sorry to have to break this news to you. The SUNY system isn’t. That isn’t to say that none of its department or schools are decent. In fact, unlike many states, almost none of the 64 schools fall below the decent bar. It’s not a high bar but many states have abysmal schools in their system. SUNY does not. In that way NY’s expressed value of democracy is upheld. None are terrible and most are ok. Many states can’t say that truthfully. Even NY’s community colleges are reasonable. And that really was the goal of establishing the SUNY system. There is a local reasonable educational choice at the college level regardless of where in NY you live. That was a goal. It was achieved and is being sustained. The fact that the PR departments of some of the schools have decided to (falsely) market the school in a way that sounds like the schools are equivalent to the best private schools in the country does not diminish the fact that the schools play an important role in educating the next generation of NY residents. And this remains the case whether you read my posts or just read the PR from the schools that use words like “best” or “premier”. Regardless of what I say, students will figure out that all systems and all schools have pros and cons. The SUNY system provides any student interested in pursuing education with a cost effective option. It is cheap and efficient. OOS students may find it even cheaper than any in-state options they are considering. That certainly isn’t usually the case for NYers choosing to attend an OOS. SUNY is a bargin. Michigan isn’t a bargain. Michigan’s PR does not promote the Ann Arbor as a bargain because it isn’t. SUNY should promote its schools as being bargains because they are. Why they choose other messages is beyond me.
No one is saying SUNY is number one. No one. In fact, neither of my daughters considered SUNY schools for a variety of reasons that many others have enunciated on here. Your arguments on this and many, many other threads on this forum though repeatedly make it out to be some major disappointment, even as you yourself say that you can get a good education there. Again, I’m not sure what you want SUNY to do. Do you want Geneseo to stop saying it is a quality liberal arts-type school? Or for Binghamton to say it offers only a so-so education? Do you want alumni at these schools to acknowledge that they went to some sort of second rate school? No SUNY school is going to reach the rankings of Michigan or UCB. So what exactly? As I noted before, most state schools do not come anywhere close. Your animosity towards SUNY just strikes me as kind of odd.
As a resident of NJ, I, and many of my friends, are happy to have the SUNY schools. It provides many NJ kids additional nearby options that are within a few thousand dollars of NJ state schools. They are good, solid, cost effective schools.
To play Devils Advocate, are the SUNY schools good options for InState and OOS because of the investment and emphasis New Yorkers place on education on the preparatory level?
blprof, Re: 212,. Interesting that you don’t think a SUNY can ever become as good as a Michigan. But in answer to your question, I don’t expect SUNY to “do” anything except to represent the school to the public in a truthful manner. When they don’t do that, or when others repeat the PR I know to be inaccurate, I try to replace incorrect information with accurate information. I don’t think it is helpful to students to misrepresent the school. There are pros and cons to all schools. SUNYs are cheap and efficient. They are not public Ivy’s or “premier” universities. When you choose a SUNY you are choosing a cheap and efficient school where the likelihood that you can get a degree in 4 or fewer years is high. Are you choosing an outstanding university that gives students the experience they’d get at a “premier” university? NO.
I never thought that SUNY was number one. That thought never crossed my mind. SUNY worked for one of my kids, but not for the other. The other kid attends one of those magnificent flagships that lostaccount discusses. I often get asked if the SUNY kid feels slighted or annoyed, and the answer is NO. She loves her school and is flourishing. That is a weird question- both of my kids went to a school that was right for them. They are very different kids.
Yes, Binghamton calls itself a “Public Ivy.” That does not bother me. Does it compare to UM, UVA, or UNC? No.
A system doesn’t need a Michigan or UCB equivalent to attract OOS students. We looked at SUNY schools OOS; the cost is better than many other systems for OOS, some have the mix of programs S is looking for, NY is close to family (since we’re US citizens overseas), etc. But basically, nothing really jumped out as pushing us into an app from an OOS perspective. If we were in-state NY, of course S would have applied – certainly Binghamton and New Paltz, maybe others. Clearly New Yorkers have a lot of fine in-state options.
I think the leap to an OOS app requires a “magic something.” It could be a shining reputation (UCB etc), or it could be some combination of unique or hard-to-find programs / majors, highly attractive location, medium or small-ish size, price, super-happy student reports, and/or physical convenience. For instance, the MD system gets a fair amount of OOS – not only the flagship (UMD) but also Towson and maybe others – but then you get the close-to-DC location in a way that’s also, for many students, close to home if they’re from PA or NJ. (And certainly close to easy airports.) Whereas NY is a really big state, so that’s a long drive or a pricey flight to small airports for most of the schools. And I don’t think they’re at ski resorts to make up for it
Students (and their families) look at a lot of things when considering OOS apps, and for us the SUNY system didn’t really offer those things. But we definitely didn’t feel that was a “lack” in the system – after all, it exists to serve residents of New York, and it looked awfully good from that perspective.
MomOnALaptop, did you look at Virginia schools? Their publics are top notch. I agree about MD too. Many are excellent. PA also has some excellent public options. They are all more expensive then NY. That is probably because NY taxes are out of sight. They have the highest taxes in the country-apparently some goes to subsidize the educations of out of state students. And when NYers go to OOS schools they do that again for students in other states. I guess New Yorkers just enjoy being generous.
