"Why poverty is like a disease"

Parent Cafe
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http://nautil.us/issue/47/consciousness/why-poverty-is-like-a-disease

Christian H. Cooper, who grew up poor in Rockwood, TN, but became very successful in life, writes about how poverty and its associated stresses can induce epigenetic changes that affect behavior and decision making, as well as his own story about his escape from poverty being more due to chance than anything else, while almost everyone else he grew up with is still in poverty. He does note that he “can count around 20 friends and family who have checked out by handgun or heroin.”

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Brookings Institute says there are 3 things to do to avoid permanent poverty and to be in the middle class: finish high school, get a job, and don’t get pregnant w/o marriage.

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@younghoss yeah that’s a bunch of BS that hasn’t been true since at least before my lifetime. Sure, those things help, but when you live somewhere with minimum wage jobs and few higher-paid jobs without a college degree, finishing high school isn’t enough. It’s just not. But going to college isn’t a real possibility either. Not when it’s 25k a year like it is here.

And pregnancy without marriage is a bunch of crap too. It’s about whether there is enough support for the child, which can be from either two parents (with or without a license), an extended family, etc.

If Brookings is really saying that, they’re ignoring decades of research and shame on them.

For the original article: yes, and? Poverty and the epigenetic stress, multigenerational impact, etc are all topics that have been well known in health for years and years.

I’ve known far too many people who’ve “checked out” with a gun. Including a brother figure just over a month ago. There isn’t a doubt in my mind he’d still be alive if his life wasn’t made infinitely harder by seemingly inescapable poverty.

It just kills me that these stories have to come out almost monthly and the middle/upper class public just does not seem to care or dismiss it.

For those of us who have made it out of poverty, it gets awkward. I am not ashamed of my roots but conservatives look at me and say “well she did it, why can’t everyone?” The reasons why I made it whereas most of my childhood friends are living in our post-industrial town, poor and many hooked on heroin, could fill a book but it mostly comes down to lucky breaks and an above-average intelligence (which I wouldn’t say IRL and which should NOT be a precondition to getting out of poverty).

I make more now than my parents ever did and I still feel poor. I own my house and have savings, retirement, etc. I am still one prolonged lupus flare away from poverty because we have absolutely no family safety net. We are the safety net to our families.

OTOH, I cannot imagine making 700k a year and still feeling like you’re one bump away from going back to poverty.

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The first two may be quite difficult to attain for some in high poverty low opportunity environments. Some high school students, even if they graduate, do not have what should be a high school education, due to poor quality high school (as the author of the above linked web page encountered). Those in an area with a poor or declining economy (as the author of the above linked web page was) may find jobs scarce, and may not have the money to look for a job or move somewhere else.

And low quality high schools with poor education and high dropout rate may be associated with out of wedlock teen pregnancies.

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My relative has a HS degree (actually a GED earned in incarceration) and a job which he works long hours at, but he gets minimum wage (or close to it) with NO benefits. If he wasn’t living rent free in his dad’s home, he couldn’t afford rent. He definitely would be facing poverty and worse but for the safety net offered by his dad.

Many folks with chronic health conditions are in or very close to poverty because the workplace really died t make much accommodation for folks with chronic health conditions. If an employer is given a choice between a person who can work whatever hours are required and one who has limitations due to chronic health conditions, who gets hired?

Agree that most jobs paying above minimum wage do require a college degree. Even jobs which require a degree — many don’t pay very well and may or may not have benefits.

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My father grew up in poverty and made it out. Didn’t graduate from high school, married at 18 because my mother was pregnant and is an alcoholic ( hasn’t had a drink in 34 years).
We’ve had many conversations about it.
He credits getting union jobs, our family not living outside our means and luck.
He says that today he thinks it is much harder to do what he did.

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It’s definitely tough overcoming the birth lottery and I’m always annoyed at those who point to the small number who make it assuming they are “typical” so everyone can make it. “The opportunity is there!” Those who make it usually have a higher IQ coupled with some lucky breaks (which can include humans who notice they’re different and help guide them along the way).

“Typical” is far more the young lad/lass with lower IQ due to either genetics and/or few opportunities to be exposed to anything educational at a young age, being told they are “dumb” from K on because they haven’t had the background academic foundation and their home life still isn’t on par with their wealthier peers, and exposure to some of the seedier things in life as “normal.” Those who actually try in school are also usually dissed by their economic peers and sometimes even family. It’s a very difficult cycle to break out of.

I’ve often wondered how many of these kids would do if they’d been in a switched at birth situation, but of course, we’ll never know.

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Actually, lots of jobs paying higher than minimum wage do not require a college degree – but many of them require their own type of education and training (which may be at cost to the student, becoming a barrier to entry for those who do not have the money up front to attend that needed school), and/or may be selective for various reasons (not always good ones; some posters here have noted that skilled trade unions in some areas tend to be racially exclusive). Even enlisted service in the US military for those who want to enlist may not be available, since about 70% of young adults in the US are ineligible for one reason or another.

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I wouldn’t conflate drug use and poverty. There are numerous examples of the ultra-wealthy succumbing to drug overdoses and many people in poverty who never tried pot. There may be some causality from drug use to poverty in that being addicted to drugs or alcohol makes it difficult to maintain a job or go to school and causes people to become poor or stay in poverty.

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For those who doubt the difficulty and the limitations of growing up in poverty, read Rachel Kushner’s novel, The Mars Room. The novel chronicles the lives of women serving life sentences in a California state prison and provides a very vivid portrait of how people who grow up in poverty are set on a trajectory that’s not headed upward. While this is a novel, the author conducted a massive amount of research–she went undercover in a state prison with a group of criminology students.

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The luck that it takes to overcome being oppressively poor can not be overstated. Everyone who has made it from my own upbringing had things work out, or people who took an interest in them that were paramount in their escape from poverty in every instance that I can think of. Even saying that, I was always thankful because there were others in much worse situations than I was. I am glad that I was never hungry, because being so would have made me into a criminal. The Author of the article definitely speaks my truth because I will never feel safe from a possible return to poverty.

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"I am glad that I was never hungry, because being so would have made me into a criminal. "

Being hungry isn’t helpful but it doesn’t necessarily turn you into criminal. We were often hungry and it wasn’t good, but within our family there were clearly individual choices in how people reacted to that. About half made understandable but poor choices and half slogged through making good choices; decades later the life paths of the two are markedly different. Being hungry made me very driven to be financially secure and creative about ways to avoid being hungry again but also to do those things legally. Spending some time hungry also makes you incredibly grateful for things people who haven’t been hungry take for granted. It’s been decades since I had to worry about having enough food and I’m still profoundly grateful each and every time I go to the grocery store and am able to buy luxuries like fresh fruit for my family.

RomaniGypsyEyes mentioned it is hard to understand making over $700k and still feeling like you’re one bump away from going back to poverty. Unfortunately, I completely understand that. Even though it’s been many years since I’ve been poor or hungry, that fear is always right under the surface. My brain understands that I have multiple safe savings vehicles, a valuable skill set, health, but my gut still remembers when I didn’t have those things. Certain lessons and fears stick with you for better or worse.

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@milee30 I lost my full ride scholarship in college and I had to really scrape by at the end (I tried to make it on my own my senior year) and I personally had some pretty dark moments/feelings from being hungry. As a kid, I don’t think I would have been able overcome that feeling and I am sure I would have taken extreme measures to make it go away. I don’t know how anyone survives being perpetually hungry as it changed my basic thought processes. I barely hung on, and my Mom is still mad about me not asking for help 20 years later.

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I think the “disease” of poverty is the social “ball and chain” that individuals must escape and the impact that has on them. In many cases, to successfully escape poverty, you have leave behind or substantially distance yourself from much/all of your family and the friends of your youth. While some folks may have that parent that always supported them escaping poverty, for most that successfully do so, their family and friends knew and wanted no better and were resigned to a life of poverty. Breaking those social chains is extremely difficult and isolating, because when you achieve objective measures of success, you often find or feel that you are still that “white trash” or inner city minority kid who is now surrounded by neighbors and colleagues who have never known poverty and cannot relate.

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Cooper’s article speaks to me. I have been braced for impact from scalp to toenails my whole life. The experience of childhood poverty marked me deeply. Areas of concentrated poverty are toxic.

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There are plenty of young kids who learn to steal because they are hungry. I know one of them very well. His mom tended to only feed him at night - even when he was a toddler. If he wanted to eat otherwise, he had to sneak it if in the house or steal it outside the house (when he was older). It’s no surprise to me that he ended up in prison later for stealing - from family and retail outlets. The habit was ingrained very early.

The lack of good nutrition early on likely did him no favors either. He was never able to handle school work and couldn’t graduate due to not passing state tests. CC? Not happening.

Anyone want to hire him and give him a well paying job? He works as he can pick things up, but those aren’t high paying jobs. Currently he’s driving truck nationwide. Hopefully that will work out for him, esp since he likes it. Overall he’s a decent person (not mean, not violent, etc), but the birth lottery sure didn’t help him.

There are way too many in similar shoes. Just working is not enough, esp if they aren’t lucky enough to have a higher than average IQ.

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Sometimes I wonder if CC truly has insane amounts of “privilege” did no one grow up poor here? The articles cited people talk about it as if they “just read a article about being poor”.

I grew up poor! Podunk middle of nowhere Arkansas, Kinglsand, Google it, after my parents died. There was no college path, college plan, graduating high school was a nachievement nothing more was ever expected. Be a trucker, work a farm, be a mechanic, or work in timber were the options…plenty did nothing and to this day live on .gov assistance it is a choice just like all others.

I’m not a huge fan of the poor me victim mentality. If you want to get out you can get out PERIOD. The problem is today everyone has a excuse for why they don’t do anything, or can’t, or feel offended it saddens me.

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^ Literally the second reply on this thread…

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I think @Altras is right here. It’s very hard to even want to get out of poverty, let alone actually do it, if your family and friends don’t have this vision. Many children of poor immigrants achieve success in life, because their parents have the vision and push them relentlessly. Here’s where our school system needs to step in when parents don’t, staring with the universal preschool.

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@emptynesteryet I hate excuses too. I have a little cousin right now who is living a similar lifestyle to the one I grew up in and he is full of them. I don’t believe that anyone can get out (a lot of people don’t see any problems living in poverty) or are not born with the gifts to make it easier (I knew my brain was my lottery ticket out of poverty early on because my Mom told me so). But hard work can get you a long way. I will note that I have known 2 people who I believe would have made it out, but 1 died as a byproduct of violence in my neighborhood before ever getting a chance while the other died due to an illness. That is why I will always throw that luck/blessed component in, because even those who want it don’t control all of the variables.