<p>Typical advice to college searches is to have a couple/few safeties, a couple/few matches, and a couple/few reaches.</p>
<p>I can understand why one should have the matches and safeties. But why would a student try to go to a school that is a reach?</p>
<p>Assuming the reach is due to academic selection standards that reflect the college’s program, why would someone want to go to a place where he or she is always stretching, always reaching to be successful? </p>
<p>It would seem to not be a happy marriage.</p>
<p>Isn’t it better to be effective, productive, and successful at a ‘lesser’ school, then always ‘reaching’ at a more prestigious school?</p>
<p>(better to be “1st in Naples than 2nd Rome”?)</p>
<p>I think so. But usually when counselors talk about a “reach” they are talking about selectivity rates, not how hard the school is once you get there.
Haven’t you heard the saying that the hardest thing about Harvard is getting in?<br>
The difficulty of a college has as much to do with the courses selected and with the student’s time management skills than any huge differences among colleges overall.
So let your son “reach” for a school he might like that may only admit 20%- or less- of those who apply. That would be a reach, but it could also be a match, academically.</p>
<p>I wanted my college to stretch me as far as I could go. The last thing I wanted was to be a big fish with a 4.0 in a little pond.</p>
<p>Note that most of the reach schools boast graduation rates above 90%. So it isn’t a reach for most of their students to “succeed” (as B students). But if they want to shine there, they’ll have to push themselves to their limits. That can be desirable or undesirable depending on your goals and priorities.</p>
<p>beacuse the reach schools are generally reaches for every applicant…no one (besides for a select group of very gifted people) can call the top schools anything but reaches…wheny you think about it if a school accepts sub 15% then its just statistically a “reach” by definition but that doesn’t mean you can’t get in…most people who apply to these schools (besides for a rather large group of dreamers who just don’t have the grades or the proper involvment to deserve a spot) all really are qualified for the schools, but the schools just can’t accept everybody. hundreds of peopel get rejected from the ivies a year who are generally qualified intellectually to go to these schools, but just caught a sour note in the admissions process. with that, reach schools are just the top schools that you deserve to get into but its just not your fault if you get rejected (not considering the outliers–highly gifted and the dreamers)</p>
<p>My D got into both her reaches, both with substantial merit aid offers and both were schools that her High School college counselor said “you will NEVER get into these schools, so dont bother” We were all suprised. But she happened to have some specific talents both schools were looking for. Reach for a reach, because “ya never know”</p>
<p>At very selective schools there are usually many more qualified applicants than there are spots available. Because of this they must turn down some people who could have done well at their school. This means that just because you might not be able to get into a school doesn’t mean you couldn’t do well there. That being said, if you’d be happier at your safety go there.</p>
<p>“The difficulty of a college has as much to do with the courses selected and with the student’s time management skills than any huge differences among colleges overall.”</p>
<p>Maybe when comparing top colleges with top colleges, but i believe this to be completely invalid when comparing lower tier schools to top schools.</p>
<p>A humanities program at Berkeley is going to be much more time consuming, and much tougher to get good grades than the same humanities major at some random state school, like Chico state or some other okay state public</p>
<p>“Oh and I forgot to add—she didnt get into one of her safeties. go figure”</p>
<p>The same thing happened to me. I got into my first choice and I got rejected from my safety. </p>
<p>I hate high school consolers. They don’t know anything except how to discourage people from reasonable goals.</p>
<p>I went to the most difficult school in my field, despite not working hard in high school. I don’t regret it one bit. When you go to a good school, they make the work very interesting, so it’s much easier to work than it was in high school. High school is boring.</p>
<p>Happened to both my kids too – acceptances at reaches, waitlist or rejections at safeties.</p>
<p>Your question so relates to the temperament of the student and his/her values. D wanted to be at the most intellectual school she could find. She was very interested in student interviewers; when they didn’t get her Iliad references she cut the school from her list.</p>
<p>The school she ended up at has highly literate people, and she really enjoys this.</p>
<p>DS will sink to any level you let him. He’s a slug. I’m only kidding – he’s a great kid, but very laid back. A more demanding atmosphere just gets so much more out of him, and he wanted to find and give the best in himself. He also is at a “reach”. He was thrilled that watching a House episode with entry mates everyone got the “Schrodinger’s Cat” reference, even though Schrodinger was not mentioned, so I think this was essential for him, too.</p>
<p>D sometimes gets frustrated that her GPA isn’t as high as it would be at some schools, but she just got accepted into a wonderful study abroad program, and I’m pretty sure the pedigree of her school was a factor (not that I think it should be.)</p>
<p>musicamusica said–
My D got into both her reaches, </p>
<p>musica, what is the sense of ‘reach’ that you are meaning here? </p>
<p>I understood ‘reach’ to be a school where the applicant’s numbers are less than the low end of the numbers of the last incoming class. So if ACT range is 28-32, and an applicant has a 26 act, that would be what I call a ‘reach’. My d has a musical talent as well as academic interest (vs merely going for music ), so this question comes up for us. </p>
<p>Other posters have spoken of a sort of a ‘selectivity reach’, where an applicant’s numbers are within the profile of the last class, but that there simply is too much demand for the number of seats at the school. I can see how this selectivity reach can possibly not indicate the difficulty of the college, but simply reflect the <em>desirability</em> of the college. Desirablity in a college, even though a college is supposed to be an academic institution may not be due to academically desirable.</p>
<p>Other reasons for a college’s desirability:</p>
<p>*surroundings</p>
<p>—middle of the city that doesn’t sleep, NYC </p>
<p>reach schools also have a LOT of money to give out…the top ones meet full financial need which is rather rare. For example, finaid at Princeton excludes student loans. Others give full rides to kids from families with less than $60k income.</p>
<p>Because the difference between a school ranked say 30 where you might be a “match” admissions wise and a school ranked 5 where you are a “reach” admissions wise doesn’t mean you aren’t capable of succeeding at that place.</p>
<p>In other words, I highly doubt the academic environment at Duke is much different than that at a lower ranked school like Wake Forest, even though Duke is much harder to get into. However, a degree from Duke is worth much more than a degree from Wake. So why not reach for that more valuable degree?</p>
<p>joecollegedad—both my D’s GPA and SAT’s were well below the average acceptance criteria in both her reaches, but she is a talented Mezzo-Soprano
and both schools had an accute shortage of Mezzos in their respective music schools. In both situations, the head of the department argued with admissions
on her behalf and they were also able to get her academic scholarships on top of the merit scholarships. But she was applying as a performance major and the scholarships would only be in effect if she kept this major.</p>
<p>So from jags above, here is one answer to the OP question —</p>
<p>a degree from Duke is worth much more than a degree from Wake. So why not reach for that more valuable degree?</p>
<p>musicamusica - did your D choose the reach school because of its music performance program or because it is prestigious or a good ‘name’ brand school? Also, seeing how her numbers were under the admit avgs, did that translate to extra stress or challenges in doing the academic work?</p>
<p>it should be known that the vast majority of applicants to these perennial “reach” schools deserve to go to them! its not our faults that we may get the sour end of the deal simply because there are not enough spots! if you don’t get into your reach school, just know that you can still succeed just as much and MORE than if you went to the reach, you still retain your brain power and common sense (street smarts). but in the meantime, why not try…heck, you must deserve it (unless of course you don’t but those people know who they are)</p>
<p>and furthermore, i want to emphasis that reach schools by definition are ones that just have too few spots for all the qualified applicants, as i said above and before, and furthermore you apply to the schools you want to go to and you feel like you have a shot at…now…its not a reach academically for most people, but statistically we all go in with the same low shots…hell, do you think any of the kids who applied to yale with a 2400 thought that they would get rejected!!! i doubt it but even though they did its not like they still aren’t smart enough to study there! the point is that intellectually these schools are not reaches for many of us that apply, but its the statistics that hold us back.</p>
<p>YES, YES, AND YES. She was looking for a good school with a “School of Music” within the university. At the school she did attend, she was assigned
a tutor to help her with the academic work—she felt the stress on the first
year only. At both schools, I imagine that her audition was what really clinched her admission. At the school she did attend, it accounted for 90% of
the decision—at least thats what an admissions director told us.</p>
<p>Why would a person be rejected from a safety school? If the grades/SAT/recs/EC’s/essays all fall far within range, how can they reject you? …especially if you show interest.</p>
<p>My S is a senior. He is applying to 5 “safeties”, 4 “realistic reaches”, but no true reaches yet. Although from the sounds of it, everything might be a reach. I did tell my son to throw a few apps into real reaches…you never know.</p>