An education is not a car.
You buy a car and there it is, it’s yours.
You pay for an education which then gives your child the opportunity to participate in it, to “take” it, to use it as much as s/he is able and willing to. It’s not at all the same thing.
"Yup but BMW driving middle class still prefers to buy BMW and send junior to free school. "
That depends on the family.
Do you know many families like that in real life? I frankly do not.
BTW, the difference between $300K and free is more like the difference between a top-end Lambo and a Camry.
If you know any families that are driving Lambos and sending their kids to a college for free, get back to me.
“A top education with brilliant professors surrounded by only the very smartest and most intellectually oriented students… an opportunity to spend four years truly immersed in “the life of the mind”… is priceless”
Very true.
Also could be had at many places at many different price points (depending on the student’s ability and interests).
It’s not about worth. It’s about priorities. Some live extremely frugally and their children attend best possible schools from nursery to masters while others live lavishly and use public schools and state colleges.
If we have the means, I will give my kid all the possible advantage in life as I can/afford. If going to an elite school will give my child a leg up, I will not hesitate to enroll my child there.
Because they’re considered elite. Wealthy people want what they consider the best and they can afford it. I dispute your statement in the thread that most others don’t see any worth. Clearly there are tens of thousands of students who see worth and want to attend. The kids who get in and can’t afford it don’t say the cost isn’t worth what they would receive…they simply can’t afford the cost. Many of the BMW driving middle class probably doesn’t have the option to send their kids full pay to an elite school so the preference regarding free tuition is probably more required than preferred.
I challenge the premise that only rich people want to send their children to top schools. For the reasons I listed above, the value of a top education is prized by many, including some of the poorest recent immigrants, middle class people, etc. I myself am a public school teacher and administrator, married to someone who earns less than I do— I am not a “plutocrat.” There are whole cultures that believe in the value of education above all else, and many families from outside those cultures that do the same.
At his “elite” college, my own child has friends from below poverty level, the working class, the middle class, the professional class, the upper class. All of those parents valued education enough to prepare their children to achieve at a level to be able to be admitted to the very best colleges. And they are aided in sending them there by generous financial aid, often much more generous than the need-based aid offered by state universities and less elite private colleges.
Elite schools are not just for the rich and not just valued by the rich.
Who are all these, “most others” that are referenced?
Right now at one of those “Elite” universities my older D is presenting a scientific poster that she spent 3 semesters working on in a lab that gave her more freedom than should be given to an undergrad. Over 200 students have already stopped by to see it …The sorority, the sport team, her classmates pure strangers. Tell me the “normal” schools where that happens. I cannot imagine a better place to spend our savings.
We are full pay at one of those schools you might consider elite. The decision to pay full price at an expensive elite is no different than buying really nice expensive clothes vs those at Macy’s or buying an expensive car. I and H felt this school was the best fit for our D. The best school to end up offering her opportunities to succeed in life. My choice. Her choice. My choice because I have done without expensive clothes, new clothes, a big house for years. I have saved and scrimped for this opportunity. What I choose to spend my money on is my choice. Why don’t you question the folks who buy big houses? I drive a Prius, not a BMW. My D drives my older Prius with 220K miles on it. Don’t assume. I assume not all parents can make the sacrifices I have. And that is OK, there are other lower cost choices, but don’t disparage me for making the choice to send my D to an expensive private.
From personal experience: 2 of my children attended elite, one attended public flagship. All children had similar ability.
There is a vast difference in the quality of instruction and opportunities between elite and public. You get what you pay for. The (highly ranked) public is a Darwinian jungle where weeding out and survival of the fittest is the norm. Some kids thrive in that atmosphere but it is not for everyone.
The elites are challenging but you are given every opportunity to succeed.
Because that’s life. I’m not rich, but if I were and my S was admitted to an “elite” school and would thrive there, I’d have him attend.
What I can’t tolerate is people who can and do pay for their kids to attend elite schools going on and on about how others didn’t sacrifice enough, save enough, work hard enough etc etc to be able to do the same thing.
I would challenge any the phrase as written. Actually, most people see value in the elite schools. The proof is the number of applicants. If all schools were the same price, then we know which ones students would prefer.
People have various means. And like everything else, they chose where to spend their money based on what they value. For many education is more like career training. For others, it’s the life of the mind. And some believe it’s access to a network of people.
For us, education is priority #1. We are not willing to spend $ on designer clothes and cars ( though we did when we were younger). We ARE willing to spend excessive amounts on education ( and travel). That’s what we value.
Seems like very few people ever talk about the intangibles of a great education. Not only spending four years in the life of the mind, but also being able to communicate clearly, see both sides of an argument, learn from others who are different. These are all things found in the best schools. ( Not looking to get into debate with anyone who believes these can all be found in spades at any university-that’s fine). I honestly don’t think “rich people see value in an elite education” and other don’t. Instead, I think many are rich due to a previous elite education ( or not having that elite education embarrassed them so they are willing to spend $$ on their kids). We’ll never know what each family values. What we do know is, demand for education is increasing. And demand for an elite education is increasing even more.
I am the product of an elite education by way of full scholarships. Now that we are full pay, we still choose this for our kids as I KNOW from experience that education matters. I would do anything possible to send my kids to the best schools possible.
@tseliot: Honors college or no at the public?
Agree that the environment should fit the kid, ideally.
I drive a 2002 Toyota, but choose to spend my money on education for my kids. Seemed worth it to me. For many middle class families the financial aid at some of the top schools makes them seem like a pretty good deal.
@RW1 It happens at many schools. Many.
All school have a vested interested in having their students succeed.
I completely disagree that there are fewer supports at non elites and that there are no weed out courses at the elites.
@PurpleTitan Not honors at the public, but it’s a college where honors does not make much difference. The quality of students at the public generally matched those at the elites because I think the elites are simply out of reach financially for many smart middle class kids and most now attend the publics.
But the quality difference in lecturing and mentoring between public and private has been striking.
@tseliot, it depends on what you are looking for. Honors colleges exist to provide small classes, mentoring, and research opportunities (in other words, some of the perks of the rich privates) in order to be attractive to academically-inclined kids. The quality of honors colleges across publics do vary a lot, granted.
I have 2 kids who are currently attending top 5 schools as ranked by USNWR. I have never thought of myself as wealthy but my income probably puts me in the 90-95th percentile. The primary reason my kids attend these elite universities is because these schools were the best fit in that they both offer a liberal arts education within a world class research university. Both kids are thriving at their respective schools and have learned and grown tremendously both in and outside the classroom. I am not saying that my kids could not have gained this experience at other schools but I believe that the opportunities for them were more abundant and more enriching at their current schools than if they had gone to our state flagship.
I can give one small example to support my point. Both kids play in their university orchestra but are not music majors. These orchestra are simply amazing and play at an unbelievable level. If my kids had attended the state flagship, they probably wouldn’t have had the opportunity to play in such an accomplished orchestra since they are not music majors.