<p>Here’s an interesting article from the NYTimes.</p>
<p>** Some of Jerusalem?s nicest people gathered the other night to listen to a talk by an Israeli soldier troubled by how he and some of his colleagues had behaved in the occupied West Bank.</p>
<p>The small crowd on a rainy evening was a bit disheveled, with lots of untamed hair and sensible shoes. Largely English-speaking, they were generally somewhere on the left of Israel?s wide political spectrum, and they listened earnestly as Mikhael Manekin, 27, spoke quietly about his four years of service with the Golani infantry brigade in the West Bank.**</p>
<p>Obviously Allmusic you’re bias and the fact that u told me to “Read history” irks me.What is even more disturbing is that u can go blathering on about the freaking Holocaust while we’re talking about a present day issue that u seem to have an utter disregard for. I understand that the Holocaust happened and it was traumatizing but i think that u should have the same humility for the Palestinians as u do for ur grandfather and what happened to him. Uh also i am pretty sure that if it wasn’t for the ALLIED forces which included American, French, and later on Russians the Jews would’ve remained in those camps a lot longer. It wasn’t like they just decided to up and leave by themselves. So yea, the Palestinians can’t just “move on”. Obviously, ur grandfather hasn’t moved on and neither have u. What annoys me even more is that u are obviously not ready to hear anybody else’s opinion. There are thousands of Palestinians dying everyday and if u have the right to actually tell me that i don’t have a right to at least speak up for them it just shows how shallow-minded u are in ur little pampered home. You know what, why don’t YOU go back to read some history</p>
That is true, as the 6 million who were shipped to concentration camps to be exterminated or starved to death were not given that option.</p>
<p>Many of their relatives, however, seeing the writing on the wall, left their homes, careers, and posessions and emigrated, as they were not willling to mortgage their own and their children’s welfare in the name of political martyrdom.</p>
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In part because the Arab countries that so righteously decry the plight of the Palestinians will not accept them as immigrants.</p>
<p>“In part because the Arab countries that so righteously decry the plight of the Palestinians will not accept them as immigrants.”</p>
<p>Yes at this point in history we have “Palestinian refugees” whose grandfather’s have never seen Palestine. By that criteria I am a Irish refugee - whodathunkit.</p>
<p>Are you as outraged by Black September, when Jordan killed over 10K Palestinians? Are you as outraged by any of the other violence, murder, discrimination, etc. shown by the other Arab countries toward their Palestinian brothers and sisters? </p>
<p>Are human rights abuses only critical to the UN when they involve Israel (since the Genocide of Darfur, the situation in Tibet or Chechnya, among others) never gets even a hand slap. I think the double standards are fasinating. Is it because Israelis are white, or Jews, that they are held to different standards than the rest of the oppressors of the world?</p>
<p>There is more of a connection between Israel and WWII as a whole rather than the Holocaust. Although obviously the Holocaust caused many stranded refugees which cried for the formation of their own homeland, this was not my point. My point was that u can’t completely disregard the Palestinian side and just say well Israel is here so now deal with it. Obviously that’s what the Allied forces thought when they put these two conflicting religons together and obviously they weren’t thinking straight because once again it’s not working. My point is that u can’t draw an imaginary line between two radically different groups and expect them to get along. This was not in anyway saying that the Holocaust had no relation whatsoever to the formation of Israel.</p>
<p>All i have to say is this…if Israel tried to take over America and succeeded today in 2007… i would be fighting till i died to try and help America regain it’s freedom with whatever power i had… And 59 years later in 2066 if someone told me that i needed to just “get over it” or “try and reach a compromise” i would tel lthem t oshut the F**k up and no matter what i would not stop fighting till America regained it’s independence/freedom or i died. It’s as simple as that. And yes it is as simple as that, equate the Palestianians position to the position you would be in, i would be fighinf for America, and i hope as Americans you would be fighting as well trying to regain our freedom. PALESTINIANS WILL NOT GET OVER IT AND THEY WONT STOP FIGHTING, Israel does no have the right to take over a country even if it was 59 years ago…</p>
<p>And I am sure your children, living in squalor and poverty, will be grateful for your uncompromising view. I am sure they would rather not have their own state, with a viable economy, and peace, so that you can covet the land you no longer have. I am sure they will be so proud that they will strap on a beltful of explosives, get on a bus, and blow themselves and everyone else on it up.</p>
<p>No… not to that extent. I am only talking about the generation alive right now… and i am sure once “your” kids heard that you did nothing to stop the hypothetical “Israelis” (I am in no way “dissing” Israel just using them as a model country) imagine how grateful they would be. “YES! My parents, instead of trying to fight back for the country we hold in our hearts so dearly and try to help me out in my future, they let Israel take over and reached a compromise so that we are basically second class citizens and dirt poor. Whoop De doo!!!” THINK ABOUT IT!!!</p>
<p>You are missing the point. “trying to fight back for the country we hold in our hearts so dearly” is exactly why they are “second class citizens and dirt poor”. (Well, that, along with their relegation to a state of perpetual political pawndom by their oil-rich brethren, as well as a remarkable degree of internal societal dysfunction.) Trying to help out for the future is exactly what is NOT happening.</p>
<p>Countries have been conquered or obliterated, borders moved, etc. throughout history. Care to look at maps from pre-post WWII? </p>
<p>While the </p>
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<p>things for them are getting worse, not better. Sometimes, one to say that it seems pretty idiotic to keep doing the same things over and over again, and expect a different response. Violence and mayhem haven’t gotten the Palestinians their own state. They could have had their own state dozens of times already, but they choose the path of resistance. </p>
<p>This is their own choice, of course, but celebrating death and keeping the citizens in a state of perpetual poverty (although they actually got much more money in aid this past year, despite the boycott against Hamas…how’s about that!) is no way to move towards self-determination.</p>
<p>As the saying goes, the Palestinians never lose an opportunity to lose an opportunity. </p>
<p>The Palestinians could have a state now. The EU and the US and Israel and other countries have pledged to give funds to individual Palestinians and to an emergent Palestinian state – if only a settlement could be reached. They would help them live better lives. But instead the Palestinians want to rail against the moon rising, as if that could stop it. The idea that Israel is going to somehow just go away is not naive, it is delusional. When you fight for a delusion, you lose the opportunity to make something positive occur.</p>
<p>Wow…you really think that could possibly happen?<br>
Have the Israelis listened to any of the things the UN wants out of them?
I don’t think so.</p>