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<p>However, isn’t it optional to move into a more expensive neighborhood with more expensive houses and more expensive cars in the driveways? Seems like this “feeling of poverty” is self-inflicted.</p>
<p>^ But it’s a Catch-22. If your co-workers live in luxury homes and drive luxury cars but you live in the same entry level home and drive a fixer car you might not “feel” rich, even if your net worth is much higher than the co workers. </p>
<p>Then that should be taken up with your therapist, if you have difficulty acknowledging reality.</p>
<p>^^That is how shrinks make money.
Comparison is a bad habit, you have to feel content because, no matter how much you make there is some one else makes more.</p>
<p>Yes, cultivating an attitude of gratitude and appreciation goes a long way toward erasing the “poor me.” I’ve always pitied folks who can’t be content and grateful–most have enough for food, shelter and some creature comforts. That’s a lot to be grateful for. </p>
<p>Around 2000, I and both kids started having chronic health issues and cherished our relative good health even with the health problems even more than ever. I’m so grateful that we have had great medical providers to work with as I know many have struggled with this as well. </p>
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However, isn’t it optional to move into a more expensive neighborhood with more expensive houses and more expensive cars in the driveways? Seems like this “feeling of poverty” is self-inflicted.[\quote]</p>
<p>Bingo. It absolutely is. </p>
<p>It’s really a breakdown of a sense of compassion coupled with a failure of imagination. A lot of these folks just seem less able to imagine how other people live, or how difficult it might be to get a job when the economy tanked, and you’re a widow with 2 kids to support. </p>
<p>Yes, which is why I posted about the fire that burned two small rental homes and left 25 people homeless with only the clothing they were wearing! Most folks have considerably more than that and aren’t living in such tight quarters. </p>
<p>This topic has come up a lot of times–I think it’s just part of the American character to deny being rich, despite being awash in luxuries that most people in the world can only dream of.</p>
<p>Some people ALWAYS feel comfortable, even when they just have $5 more than their expenses while others ALWAYS feel poor and compare themselves to Paris Hilton and “Friends,” and other people who seem to “have it all.” Most in the US do have so much–running water, access to medical care and much more. I have always been comfortable and able to live on less than I had, even when I was a student and even when H & I ate a TON of peanut butter sandwiches for lunch and oatmeal for breakfast. Perspective matters greatly. I help folks who wonder how they will be paying for their medications, food and other basics. Life and aging is very challenging for them.</p>
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<p>I believe this defines why many who could be further ahead aren’t. Hubby and I are well educated, started in professional jobs right out of college, did not have student loans, and never felt the need to keep up with the Jones’s so, as our incomes increased, we invested everything in excess of a modest (compared to our peers) lifestyle. We have always rejected the idea that higher income necessitates higher expenses and that our jobs require us to live in certain places, drive particular vehicles, or dress according to some fashion. We downsized when everyone else was upsizing and invested the gain. When we had a child unexpectedly after 16 years of marriage, we moved to a lower cost part of the country, downsized again, and starting investing in a 529 to cover college costs that our financial planner told us would be enormous by the time our son was a senior in 2015. Today, that fund ensures DS can go to school wherever he is accepted without student loans, but saving that money meant further choices for us.</p>
<p>We have made many decisions along the way that have put us on that “above average couple” chart in the article linked in post #35. Do we feel rich? Right now, no. One mistake we made in moving to our current location was assuming that even though the public schools here are grossly underfunded and underperforming there would be good private options. That turned out not to be true for our particular student, so we opted for a very expensive boarding school that has consumed all of our disposable income for the past four years. I joke on the prep school forum about being in that crowd that, for now anyway, is enjoying rice OR beans. Should anyone feel sorry for us? No, and that’s not the point. I’m saying that even if you end up on that chart, you can end up not feeling rich based on decisions you make – and it’s very important to understand that once you are fortunate enough to have more than subsistence income, your choices will dictate where you end up on the wealth scale. I agree with @ucbalumnus that much of the feeling of poverty is self-inflicted. You chose whether or not to be a victim of your disposable income. </p>
<p>In our case, our previous choices have enabled us to survive the boarding school choice. Once DS is off to college, we will move back into that “cushion” space and will be downsizing one final time, monetizing our paid-off house, and planning to live well in retirement off the proceeds of our investments. </p>
<p>Unlike Rockefeller, we answered the question “how much is enough?” with a solid number rather than a moving target. As long as you chase after “just a little bit more,” you will never feel rich, and you will never reach the end of the race. For us, we decided long ago what rich is, what defines our finish line, and have purposely run our race with lifestyle and savings boundaries that are guiding us quickly (now) toward this end. I’m not posting this to sound smug, but as an example of how rich is really how you define it, and you will be much happier defining it for yourself than believing it is out of your grasp because you will never have what someone else has.</p>
<p>And @Hunt is spot on that we Americans (and especially educated CCers) are “awash in luxuries that most people in the world can only dream of” no matter where you are on the American wealth scale. Perspective is all.</p>
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<p>I love my 70-200/2.8, but truth be told, I don’t need it as often now that I’m not taking photos of the kids’ hockey games. It’s also useful for weight training. An f/4 would be fine now. I couldn’t rationalize it either, but my dear wife gave me a D4 and the f/2.8 24-70 and 70-200 lenses as a birthday present, but that was after two decades of neither of us giving each other birthday or Xmas presents. </p>
<p>We are extravagant with education and cars (and the one-time camera excess). However, we live way below our means, and save/invest a lot of our income. My wife continues to work, but mostly for non-financial reasons. </p>
<p>@Hunt, I’m missing that gene that wants to deny being rich. We have more than I ever dreamed of. We have more than our parents ever did. I hope we have less than our kids will have. </p>
<p>Do not disagree with anything said above, but wonder how one can be certain of ‘how much is enough to retire on?’. My husband just received the renewal for his small company’s medical insurance. Retaining a plan fairly similar to the one they have now will cost an additional $10K/employee/year. Alternatively, he can select a plan that will keep costs constant, but will shift a lot more expense to employees. We can absorb this additional cost, but there are those who would have to make adjustments to their budgets.</p>
<p>What other unknown expenses are out there? I know…if anyone could answer that question then the expenses wouldn’t be unknown. And, this reply probably belongs in the retirement thread instead of here.</p>
<p>Many years ago we had an earthquake. (not the 94) The television in the den broke. Mr. Ellebud left and bought a new television within an hour. I contacted our then handyman who bolted things to the wall. I remember feeling quite amazed that we didn’t have to talk about any of this. </p>
<p>I remember hearing that if someone knows on any given day how much they are worth they aren’t rich. Markets fluctuated, you make more on one thing…and less on another.</p>
<p>I think there are some people that think if they admit they are rich, they become targets. Somebody is going to take their money or assets away. When we look at what has happened in society, it is kind of the opposite . Wealth is protected while young people trying to get ahead are dealing with lower paying jobs and student loans. </p>
<p>Also, you don’t have to be rich to have a good life. You can be in good shape financially and not be rich. </p>
<p>If you aren’t rich, that doesn’t make you poor. You may be upper middle class.
If you can’t retire at age 50, that doesn’t mean you are in trouble. </p>
<p>Upper middle class in the United States is a pretty good place to be.</p>
<p>Oatmeal is a great breakfast.
I eat it 3 times a week.
The other 4 days I either have toast with peanut butter or yogurt.</p>
<p>But whether you consider yourself wealthy, depends if you value material goods more than you value time.
So many people working 60+ hours a week so they can pay to send their kids to boarding school and maintain homes that they barely see.
( personally I think Americans watch too much TV, or at least we can’t separate entertainment from reality. " Friends" is a good example of how unrealistic expectations are raised.
<a href=“http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FriendsRentControl”>http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FriendsRentControl</a>)</p>
<p>Americans like to think they value children and family more than anywhere else in the world, but we are also pretty good at deluding ourselves.</p>
<p>I won’t even start on how we obviously feel it’s more important to have access to multiple firearms than for our children to be safe.
But we still don’t have national paid leave to care for family.</p>
<p><a href=“https://sweden.se/society/10-things-that-make-sweden-family-friendly/”>https://sweden.se/society/10-things-that-make-sweden-family-friendly/</a></p>
<p><a href=“More than 120 Nations Provide Paid Maternity Leave”>More than 120 Nations Provide Paid Maternity Leave;
<p>@CT1417, the beauty if becoming accustomed to LBYM (living below your means) is that you will save more, obviously, but you will also be prepared to scale back if the need arises. I strongly recommend, and have also done so on the retirement thread, using Kotlikoff’s software <a href=“http://www.ESPlanner.com”>www.ESPlanner.com</a> to smooth consumption during the earning and retirement years. </p>
<p>Human nature being what it is, I fear under-saving more than spending too little now, but the software helps show the way (and then I save more than it recommends ). </p>
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I will just note that in many places in the world, this would be proof that you ARE rich.</p>
<p>“Then that should be taken up with your therapist, if you have difficulty acknowledging reality.”</p>
<p>Maybe that should be the definition of feeling rich. If you feel that you have enough money to pay a therapist to talk to you about frivolous things, like whether you should feel rich because other people think you are----you’re rich!</p>
<p>“But whether you consider yourself wealthy, depends if you value material goods more than you value time.”</p>
<p>I love this. I just love this.</p>
<p>I agree with @bevhills. I started to feel “rich” when we got to the point that we could just buy what we needed without thinking about the cost. The expense of cars, washers, dryers, computers, etc…is pretty irrelevant to us…not that we buy things that we don’t need, but when we need them we buy them without having to worry about the cost. I feel very fortunate to be in that position.</p>