<p>"I’ll consider myself comfortable when I can live the way I live now without working for the rest of my life. I could actually say that now except I’d have to die in 5 years. "</p>
<p>I am almost 50; my husband is a few years older. We have planned and saved so that I get to retire in a year or two, and he will retire a few years after that but before 60. I see no reason we won’t live to, say, 90 or 100 as we are both in excellent health, work out, etc. So our plan is to finally enjoy all we have scrimped and saved for, knowing that our kids’ education is paid for and there’s enough cushion should they (hypothetically, doubt it will happen) decide to go to law school, med school, require some help getting started, etc. But it was a lot of work to get there. </p>
<p>“If we didn’t have money, we’d knock out reasons 2 & 3 but because we’re the ones in the family with “extra”, we’re the ones who have stepped up. I do this willingly.”</p>
<p>No savings because he lived within his means but just didn’t make a lot of money, or no savings because he blew it all and didn’t plan for the future? I am currently serving as back-up to a relative in the latter situation and it is a <em>major</em> source of tension / stress in my life. </p>
I think this is the key to knowing kids will have a secure future, if not necessary become financially wealthy. People often equate college education with marketable skills, but I think the two are not always related. A liberal education should be for education’s sake, with a full program of arts, science and literature. If a child is raised with a skill set that includes punctuality, good writing skills and an appreciation for delayed gratification I think they will eventually have a secure future, regardless of their income. During college they can acquire other skills that boost their chance of finding a job, but I don’t think it is entirely dependent on the major chosen or the school attended. </p>
<p>First…gasp about the guests at this dinner party. Mr. Ellebud and I took Mr. Ellebud’ 1st cousins out for dinner. The female cousin was visiting Los Angeles for their first time. Special reason for inviting them for a dinner which also included Mr. Ellebud’s brother and sil. </p>
<p>We took everyone out to dinner. We wanted to say thank you for assisting in a difficult matter. We chose Spago…That Spago…Wolfgang Puck’s Spago. The dinner for the 6 of us totalled over 1200. Cocktails, wine (bil chose the wine…150 for a wine that was mediocre, and 225 for a good wine. </p>
<p>We do Spago’s few times a year. We have never ordered wine that was so expensive. It was special. Expensive. But truly we would NEVER have ordered the wine is we expected to ask anyone to pay “their” part. </p>
<p>…but for those who know my story about family…it was a very different sort of evening. </p>
<p>Reading all about these expensive dinners and wine makes me feel really really poor now. And I complain that Panera Bread is so expensive and it’s just a glorified Subway.</p>
<p>$3700 for a bottle of wine is a supreme waste of money, IMO</p>
<p>We do nice dinners out with H’s family several times a year for some reason or another - birthday, graduation, anniversary. etc. It’s usually 22 people with three couples who always pay the bill. We probably host a couple of them on our own; the other two host a few, then we split the rest of the meals three ways. The bill for this sort of thing runs between $2K and $3K at the high end. No one drinks in excess and we buy moderately priced wine - $60 for red or white, and a little more for a couple of bottles of champagne. This seems like a luxury, but where I live, every nice restaurant is packed with similar family groups on weekend nights, so it’s obviously not that unusual. </p>
<p>My notion of “rich” is not having to work for the income, even though one may or may not work for other reasons. In other words, It isn’t wrapped up in a salary, and there is accumulated wealth. A high net worth that is NOT dependent on a salary. Those payroll deductions are anathema to the rich and precisely why Warren Buffett pays less tax than his secretary. Being able to live comfortably on a small percentage of one’s investment income well before retirement age…while still growing substantial wealth for future generations.</p>
<p>A note to posters wondering about the Seattle area dining icon. The Herbfarm is alive and well, with new fall dining experiences being offered at $195-275/pp (9 courses that include wine pairing). Just had dinner at the Barking Frog (the restaurant next door) with the big kiddo (dine around week) - $30 per person. Highly recommend! If that is still expensive, there is Red Hook next door. :)</p>
<p>We used to go out to the herb farm quite a bit when it was in Fall City, for the pumpkin patch and hay rides, do they still do that?
Interesting that west of the river is Woodinville, I always thought of it as Redmond. No wonder I get turned around over there now. When I lived in Woodinville, it had one blinking red stop light, and I rode my bike out to Cottage Lake from my moms house in Bridle Trails.
:)</p>
<p>I grew up extraordinarily poor my brother, two sisters and I shared a room in a two bedroom trailer with a single mom who worked two jobs as a babysitter and bus driver. I’m now in a EE/Physics PhD program on a 37k a year stipend in Boston and an additional 6 - 8k per year in freelance consulting work and I’m the only one of my Cohorts not struggling to survive the grad student life. </p>
<p>I think people have a skewed sense of what they need to be happy. I have a roof over my head in a nice neighborhood in Cambridge, food to eat, a cheap car, friends and a nearby watering hole for those occasional evenings of decompression. I travel internationally for conferences and even take a week or two a year for a vacation. I’m also on zero state of federal aid and never took financial aid for undergrad but instead worked a few part-time jobs and a submitted for a few scholarships and grants to pay for school so I have no loans.</p>
<p>I don’t see myself much different than someone making 100k per year at 28. Although I might not be buying a home at 30 or have a big retirement yet I have about the same living conditions and recreational life as anyone else my age, I’m even saving some money although not very much. I’ll do my defense in a year and move into a postdoc which I’ll assume will be about 45 - 50k per year for 2 or 3 more years then move to private industry where I should buffer off the decade of not saving much. </p>
<p>Honestly in reality most people don’t care you personally have, only what they have. The ones that actually do care so much about financial appearances and others personal possessions I’ve found typically lead empty conversations and rather empty lives IMHO. You’re not going to get buried with your Yacht even though it might be fun to have one while you’re alive. I’ve never seen an Obituary read he/she left 5 houses, a yacht, 9 cars and UBS trust fund account behind. He/she will sorely be missed by them. </p>
<p>I’m not saying more money does not make life a little more manageable, but with more money means more responsibilities. And I’m thankful I live in a place where when I’m ready to take on more responsibilities I’ll have the opportunity to make a little more money. I’m certainly not in a field that is going to bring me a large bounty, but if I decided to become the yachting type there is always Entrepreneurship and you don’t need a college degree for that. </p>
<p>“No savings because he lived within his means but just didn’t make a lot of money, or no savings because he blew it all and didn’t plan for the future? I am currently serving as back-up to a relative in the latter situation and it is a <em>major</em> source of tension / stress in my life.”</p>
<p>In the case of the f-in-law, a blue-collar guy without even a high school diploma who then managed to put 3 kids through college…we help him willingly…he’s a great person who did everything right…the money just never happened for him.</p>
<p>in the case of the brother, constant heartache/stress/anger/confusion/sadness…and all wrapped into me giving him money. He’s a 40-year-old man who’s just fallen off the tracks…yes, he jumped off those tracks…but what do ya do? I’ve tried letting him fall so he can then pick himself up (as all the advice columns recommend) but he keeps finding new lows to fall to…oy, can’t even talk about it…</p>
<p>I have a brother and a sister in the same gold seeking mode as your Brother. But if every time they dig holes, I throw them a ladder what’s the incentive for them to stop? Both are capable people and smart but would rather spend their lives searching for the easiest possible way that does not require work or responsible coping mechanisms. When my friends here start touting they are a product of their environment it just about sends me threw the roof because my other sister and I grew up in the exact same environment and it did not stop us from moving forward. Same mother, same trailer, same treatment, same school and the same societal influences. Hopefully someday people in these situations will wake up and start governing themselves. Unfortunately once someone gets the taste mercy they many times fail to ever take mercy on themselves. And as much as I love my brother and sister I have to follow the realization they are just as capable decision makers as those who are not family. I always hated the quote “You can lead a Horse to water but you can’t make him drink” I never met an animal that you had to lead to water in the first place. If they get thirsty enough they’ll find it. </p>
<p>Herbfarm is a short bike ride for me, but I have never been since I am such a cheapskate. Wife has been a couple of times courtesy of pharmaceutical salesmen. The original Fall City Herbfarm burned down in 1997 and has been near the wineries in Woodinville since 2001.</p>
<p>We are one of the few families in our neighborhood without a maid or a yard service. One of the reasons we lack cash is my employer’s poor benefits - no dental, no orthodontic coverage, no eye exams covered, a 60/40 split on regular healthcare costs. We are over $10k out-of-pocket on healthcare costs this year and we have all been healthy. Another is the terrible financial aid at our state universities.</p>
<p>We do have some of the things that separate the middle class from the poor: parents with cash reserves, home equity, a partially funded 401k. What we don’t have, since opening a business that has yet to make any money, is savings or much available cash. We are living a fairly meager existence compared to 20 years ago.</p>
<p>We are also among the few in my extended family and neighborhood without house cleaning or yard service. H and I prefer not having other folks over at our house. We are happy with our robotic vacuum cleaners, which works great and doesn’t require tips or much maintenance. We are comfortable and glad that our extended family (including my parents) are also comfortable and no one is seeking handouts. We feel very fortunate, even if we’ll never earn 7 figures a year or anything approaching that! One of our former neighbors does earn 7 figures/year, but he now works VERY long hours, including a lot of nights and weekends and has A LOT of responsibility. </p>
<p>Livingsmall, Well now I disagree with you. You aren 't biologically the same as your brother and sister. You have some of the same experiences as your siblings but there are also differences. Environment is a factor. It is not the sole factor. </p>
<p>My siblings and I are not the same. We don 't have the same opportunities. We don’t have the same experiences. </p>
<p>I did not walk by my two best friends’ house at the exact time they were murdered… by their father as my brother did. He 's fine. It had to affect him. I know it affected him.</p>
<p>There is a class at Harvard about morals and decision making. The class said we made it. It is other people 's fault if they don 't make it. Then the professor asked how many people are first born? </p>
<p>The vast majority of the class were first born. You are going to have more first born than any other birth order, but not to the extreme of that class. </p>
<p>Your birth order can make a difference. First born tend to do better . Not always . </p>
<p>There are many factors in success and how we define success.</p>
<p>I should add that some people make poor decisions. Some people are bums.</p>
<p>My H and I currently support his niece (who is disabled and can’t work) and her father who is retired. They live in a house we own and we pay all their utilities, property taxes, and maintenance when needed. We also bought them a car (Prius) a few years ago when the niece’s car died. It’s not clear to us how they ended up without the ability to take care of themselves–they live in the town where H was raised, which has a very low cost of living and they do get disability benefits and social security.</p>
<p>Yes–we could tell them to go pound dirt and point out that they didn’t plan very well for the future or that they are spending too much, but we don’t, because they stepped up to the plate and took care of MIL in the last two years of her life, when she couldn’t live alone and needed help. My husband’s two sisters, who also live close to their mother, weren’t there for her, We live over 800 miles away and we offered to pay for help, but MIL refused. Before my MIL passed away, she asked H to make sure to take care of his niece and her Dad. We’re honoring her wishes. </p>
<p>I think there are some people (like H’s niece and her Dad) who just can’t make it in the world and need help. Who knows why that happens. It’s easy for those of us who’ve done well despite unfavorable odds (H and I both come from working class/lower class backgrounds) to think that if we did it anyone can do it. Yet, that’s not always the case. </p>
If that is still expensive, there is Red Hook next door. :)</p>