why so much specialization so early?

Parent Cafe
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<p>My take is that that the allure of getting a minor or double major is intended to get the kids to take something substantial for their elective classes rather than underwater basket weaving, if they are really interested in something tangentially related to their field. It provides an additional focus point.</p>

<p>I remember taking random stuff for my electives- to be honest, many of the classes were those that I knew I could do relatively well in with relatively little effort. Hence, I did not receive a double major/minor.</p>

22

<p>

I don’t know how many schools do what JHU’s Engineering school does, but they require that, in your electives, you must have at least one field in which you do enough depth to get to at least the 300-level. I know Bates had “breadth and depth” requirements, and I think a lot of schools have similar.</p>

<p>But that is a lot easier than having a minor; at least for an Engineering student - unless the minor were in one of the sciences. My S gave a quick thought to an Econ minor when his Advisor noticed that he had done a few courses. But getting the minor would have been very difficult along with all the required courses for EE, electives in other Engineering disciplines, gen ed…</p>

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<p>jmmom,
Oh my goodness, I can’t imagine minoring in Econ while majoring in EE being trivial!</p>

<p>My son was considering a minor in something like chemistry or microbiology, while majoring in bioengineering. Those overlap a lot more than econ! I don’t know the particulars- he had this whole spreadsheet thing with different options- but it seemed like if he was careful about his electives, and did a summer session, it was very doable.</p>

<p>Right now I’d bet my son is doing the cha cha, happy about not having to do two semesters of foreign language. (I did… now that was a waste of time. Two semesters is not long enough to get you anywhere.) As it is, he did four YEARS of Latin (can anyone say dead?) in high school. (Now THERE is a language that two semesters of high school WILL actually pay off in spades.)</p>

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<p>Four years of Latin plus two in middle school for Mathson. :slight_smile: Actually two semesters of college German allowed me to spend a summer in Germany and feel pretty comfortable. I could easily read a menu, get a hotel room and hold a conversation on normal topics. I attended a Goethe Institute for a month, so I kept studying, but I was impressed with how much I knew. At least the equivalent of four years of high school French.</p>

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<p>WashDadJr did two years of Latin and three of Spanish. What it has mostly done for him is allow him to understand the jokes the cooks were making during his summer job at FatBurger.</p>

<p>The ability to avoid too much specialization too early turns out to have been the big win for WDJr’s AP scores. He started college with something like 24 units, and could skip freshman chemistry and calculus, and most of the social science breadth requirements. His college also let him skip the first semester English class (without credit, though) and go on to the second. Instead of grinding through Chemistry – which is a “bust-out” class in his college – he’s taking the first-semester EE and CS courses. Doing well on his AP and SAT tests was the smartest thing he did in high school.</p>

<p>As for “underwater basket weaving” classes, my BA is in Political Science, but I took something like 50 quarter units in physical and biological sciences. To someone interested in international relations and political philosophy these courses were completely irrelevant, but if I had it to do over again I wouldn’t change anything. Educated people should know about lots of things – too much specialization is for insects (thank you, RAH).</p>

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<p>With the exception of a major like engineering, where it is understandable that students need to declare and get on track early, I agree that early specialization, or at least the appearance of it, is unfortunately becoming more and more common. There is no question that many schools now ask for intended major right on the application, where this was never the case or one needs to apply to certain schools to get into a particular major, when there may have been few barriers to that in years past. I’ve been to info sessions (many of them now) where they go around the room and ask students for their proposed majors - that would have also been unheard of years ago. I feel that all of this is more for the benefit of the college more than anything - to plan how many and whom to admit in order to build a diverse class, rather than for any benefit as far as the student is concerned. </p>

<p>Personally, I’ve always suspected that an additional reason for this is that the schools have the mindset that an early career focus may be a sign of an organized and ambitious mind! I wonder if some would rather admit a kid who comes across 100% sure of his or her future career plans but then changes course along the way, than a kid who is undecided or wishy washy. </p>

<p>What really distresses me though I imagine there are practical reasons for it (weeding out students ahead of time who may not be successful in the major) are the increasing number of schools in which you must apply to a separate division, for example the school of business or the school of communications, or arts and sciences rather than entering and having the freedom of choice after that critical first year or two. As a strong believer in the benefit of a liberal arts education, I really deplore the direction schools have taken in this regard. On the other hand, there are excellent universities and LACs where this clearly is not the case and it’s just another way to figure out what is or is not a good fit for a student. </p>

<p>To me, this was one of THE most distinguishing features between schools, ie how easy they make it to transition between one major/school versus another, either in terms of getting admitted and/or changing majors along the way. Considering the fact that regardless of what they say, most incoming freshmen are undecided, and many students end up changing majors and certainly jobs many times in a career - I do not think early specialization(ie vocational training) is in the interests of most students at the undergrad level.</p>

<p>Of course, there are those who really do know what they want to do for the rest of their lives at age 17 but I think they are the exception, not the rule!</p>

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<p>can you imagine a world of International Relations majors who don’t do History Classes</p>

<p>not knowing real history about how countries got to where they are is scary</p>

<p>so many mistakes have been made because NOT knowing how a mess was created, stemming from hundreds of years of relations, and to think that history is less important than other courses for IR seems really odd</p>

<p>that is why I find this specialization so irksome for freshman- some fields NEED a broad base of knowledge, not cookie cutter degrees</p>

<p>egad</p>

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<p>we have to take history. I said the choices of what history classes you want to take are a little more broad (instead of picking three out of four choices or something). There’s also a couple general requirements in history of course but some people place out of them with AP credit. IB is only one test though, so even though we do US/international history, I only get credit for American history because the exam goes by the third paper which for us was History of the Americas. </p>

<p>Most of the kind of history you seem to be describing is though, also covered in the required government classes like international politics. It’s not generally based on current events for analysis, at least in my experience.</p>

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<p>My DD started out as an Art Major at a top 15 U. During the first year they told her she’d have to choose a major by next year. Hunh? She was already an art major! They wanted her to specify whether she was majoring in painting, or sculpture, or drawing, etc. She transferred to a school with no majors and is taking a much broader range of courses encompassing many different disciplines, often two or more within the same course and subject.</p>

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<p>As for the original question, I think because society is so much more competitive and housing is so expensive kids are thinking more about careers than I did. Feminism has also changed the landscape.</p>

<p>My mom went to Syracuse in the forties. She drifted around between chem, psych, and soc, finally earning her degree in soc because it was “easiest”. She graduated college, moved to NYC and found that she was basically unemployable so she study at Katherine Gibbs and became an executive secy. After I was born she didn’t work for 15 years. And that’s what she expected. She happened to get a professional level civil service job after that, but she really did go to college to get her MRS.</p>

<p>I started in '68 with no career goals. However, no matter what courses I tried to take, I always drifted back to literature. So, it didn’t take rocket science to see that I should get a PhD in English (had all A’s, another motivation for major) and then what else could I do but college teach? I’ve always worked except for a four year leave of absence when I had them. I was able to stay home with them and then just nursery school. No nannies. Yea! (No value judgment, just what I wanted.)</p>

<p>Now, my kids have been career focused for a very long time. One wants to be a lawyer, one a doctor. I think this is a reflection of how much more kids focus on earning a living than I did. They even had to take economics in HS, something I have never taken. Neither wants to go the traditional poly sci / biology path. But both had to pick a major early. D has tremendous distribution requirements and has to write a thesis. That means a junior colloquium in major which means enough credits in major by Fall junior year if you want to go abroad (and so many more do now.) S picked music major where it is strongly suggested that you choose by freshman year, latest 1st semester soph year, because it is a demanding major with requirements of performance groups, lessons, theory, history, perf. classes, compos., conducting, you get the idea. </p>

<p>It’s a sign of the times. Not bad either, in my opinion, as long as there is some breadth in the program. Saves someone from my mother’s situation.</p>

<p>I think school should provide both some career focus and some general education because both are vital.</p>

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<p>I have always been under the impression that most majors do start, at least partially, as soon as you begin the freshman year. Back when I was a music major (freshman year), I took theory, performance class, and private lessons. When I switched over to business, I had to “make up” for lost time- I was missing an Econ, Stats, and Calculus. Had I started out as a business major and then decided to switch over to history, I’m sure I’d have had to do some catching up as well. I’m not familiar with any college where all freshman take the same classes, even back in the dark ages when I was going to school.</p>

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<p>As many have said, certain majors lend themselves to very specific course outlines.</p>

<p>In the case of music performance majors, most BM programs require a full complement of eight semesters in performing organizations, and eight semesters of individual studio instruction as degree requirements.</p>

<p>Many courses are sequenced timed, i.e, fall/spring offerings. At smaller schools, or smaller departments, missing one differs the second for a year.</p>

<p>Many specialized courses are not offered during summer sessions, making “catch-up” unrealistic or impossible.</p>

<p>There are many variables that are school and discipline specific.</p>