<p>is this a new phenomenon, this starting out in freshman year focused soooo much on a “major” - ie bio, or engineering, with little coursework in other areas</p>
<p>with histroy showing that many students change their majors, is it smart to start with such a narrow focus?</p>
<p>we have kids talking two hard sciences with labs, who may end up “wasting” a semester because they find out it is not what they want to do</p>
<p>my D has a friend doing pre-dental so its two science classes with labs and english, what if she, which is a real possiblity, changes her mind?</p>
<p>when we see so many taking over 4 years to graduate these days, is this part of the reason- having to take some “basic” classes later in the college career to get caught up</p>
<p>No they don’t skip social sciences, etc. They take them in addition to their maths and sciences (although not as many as a social sciences major would take). They have to get all the basic science and math done, because starting in the junior and even sophomore year, they take engineering courses. My son’s a soph and he’s already done two Bios with labs, two Chem with labs, and is on his second Physics with lab. Plus he’s now in his fourth math. He’ll be taking bio chem and O chem next semester I believe, and is in statics and an ancient history class right now. He’s GOT to get all these requirements out of the way, because by junior year, it’s nothing but engineering classes, with some electives thrown in (which in his case will probably be in a science so he can get a minor).<br>
Engineering is tough.</p>
<p>Luckily, I think while there are those who realize engineering is not for them, they probably go on to majors where those science courses are useful. I only took one course my freshman year related to my major. It was a freshman seminar that didn’t count.</p>
<p>It works the other way as well, though. Yes, someone in my son’s shoes would have to go to school an extra year if he decided to major in, say, art history. However, someone doing the general courses recommended for art history would certainly have some catching up to do as well, if they decided to major in engineering.</p>
<p>My H majored in Electrical Engineering in the mid 80’s. Go Purdue! All of the EE students had a group of really tough science/math classes that had to be taken freshman year. According to my H, these were “weed out courses.” You had to maintain a certain GPA to remain in the program, and half or more of the kids who started out as EE changed to other majors by sophomore year. In his freshman physics class the average score on the first test was a 35%. (He did better!)</p>
<p>My daughter had to pick early (and you all know how THAT is working out) in order to fit in enough classes to fulfill the core, major in biology AND become certified to teach at the high school level.</p>
<p>Understand that the U.S. is practically unique in the world for not making ALL entering university students pick their course of study at the time they apply. (I think Canada also allows general arts-and-sciences applications, or at least some of their unis do.) When most of the world makes 18-year-olds pick their career, it’s not surprising that we edge in that direction, too.</p>
<p>I like our system better, but it’s more expensive.</p>
<p>zoosermon,
Many students with science and math majors struggle those first few months of college. My husband said that pretty much everyone in his EE group were “Aces” in HS. The pace and level of difficulty can throw them for a loop. Tell her she’s not alone and to utilize all of the resources available. The profs EXPECT to get phone calls from students (not parents!) and want the kids to reach out. They won’t hand it to them on a platter, but if she belongs in that major, and is willing to ask for the help she needs, she’ll be fine. If not, she’ll find another path and that’s ok too!</p>
<p>Sorry, but I don’t think that learning anything is a waste. And most majors, barring things like engineering, have some sort of distribution requirements. These 2 courses can fulfill those requirements.</p>
<p>It’s by taking the more difficult science, lab, and engineering courses up front that students figure out if they really want to pursue a major in that area or not. Some of the majors sound 'interesting; but once they find out the difficulty of the realities of the major some students change their mind. It’s better they discover this early so they can focus on what they really want to do and avoid taking a lot of classes they wouldn’t otherwise need.</p>
<p>Also, with engineering, they need to start right away since they take so many classes. They don’t have much time to mess around. They take a lot of science, math, and engineering classes but they also take a lot of the GE classes of history, etc. Some people try to draw a relatively direct correlation between a typical BS in engineering degree and a BA in poliSci, psych, or history but there really isn’t one since the engineering degree can require considerably more courses and a lot more difficult work.</p>
<p>Chedva is very right and there is NOTHING wrong with choosing a path your freshman year and deciding it’s not for you. That’s what college is all about, exploring, learning, trying things you never dreamed of…growing.
JHS: I like our system too. I think that there are very few kids at 18 who know exactly what they want to study/have as a career. A goal or focus can be great, but I also think that exploring your options is good.</p>
<p>I think engineering just has so much material to cover, and with college costs so high, it is hard to waste time! My son also has humanities requirements though.</p>
<p>There’s a poster in a student lounge where I work that has some sappy clich</p>
<p>At my S’s school you have to state on the application what you intend to major so you are in essence applying to that specific College. For instance S’s stated major was environmental engineering and on his acceptance letter it said congratulations on your acceptance to the College of Engineering. Everyone applies to a specific College, not just the University in general. Of course you can change later. S has had at least two classes with labs every semester. Sometimes more.</p>
<p>If you go to one of the “top” schools and don’t have enough credits, then you’re pretty much a semester behind everyone. I have 9 and apparently that is on the low end or something (and also in completely useless areas). If you wait until the second year to decide on a major, doors close. I though I could wait too but I realize if I want to do IR I can’t. So basically I have decided. I am perfectly happy with that and it is what I want, but the prerequisites are so heavy there is no other choice but to start now or do extra years (which I would prefer not to do). Especially if you want to double major in Econ, which will take up a significant chunk of time even though it overlaps with the IR hours/prereqs. </p>
<p>It is possible some schools are tightening major requirements. That’s what happened with our IR program. Until this crop of freshmen/sophomores, the requirements were much looser, however they thought that some students were going out viewed as “not as competitive” in the job market. So they have completely reformulated the curriculum with so many required classes (all of which need prereqs) and so many classes in these areas, etc. And the prereqs are pretty cut and dry, I mean the econ sequence doesn’t leave a lot of room for choice, we have a language requirement which also takes up time. There’s a little more room in history classes I guess. They pretty much flat out said you probably won’t be able to double major in anything other than econ (some people want to double major in a language…really hard to make the hours work out unless you came in with 30+ credits and knocked all the general education requirements out).</p>
<p>For Engineering students (mine is one), I do feel a little disappointment that they cannot spend that first year or so “browsing.” But my S doesn’t feel that disappoinment at all. And, those courses he took the first year were not at all limiting, imo. Nor would they have been wasted if he decided on something else. He could have gone into any number of science or math majors; or even social science, business or humanities and would have had his physical/natural science and math courses “out of the way.” </p>
<p>I also agree with others who say that taking a lot of science, even if you later head in a different direction, can’t be considered a “waste.” </p>
<p>Finally, although my Engineering kid had a pretty limited ability to browse around, he still took, in his first year, a social science course, a writing intensive English course, a music performance course; and, in his second year, 2 foreign language courses.</p>
<p>Had he not taken all the science, math and engineering, he would not be able to graduate in four years (he had to take a math course in summer to be able to, as it is), which he wants to do. And, believe me, our wallets are right with him on that decision ;).</p>
<p>One thing <em>I</em> don’t get is the number of kids I see wanting to double and triple major, double minor, etc. etc. etc. I don’t get why they want to do this. Why not just take a lot of courses in a second field of interest? Without the pressure of fulfilling minor and major requirements? What do they think this is getting them… Fine if they want to do it, but many seem to be stressed about it and feel they <em>should</em> max the number of majors/minors.</p>
<p>sarahsmom and packmom,
My son applied to NCSU, which by the way is an outstanding engineering university, and I recall (correct if wrong) that they wanted to know what you intended to major in, but “general” was the default setting if you didn’t “get in” to that major of study. So in other words, there was no gamesmanship involved in telling them what you were at least initially interested in studying.</p>
<p>As far as double majoring and minoring- it seems like it’s relatively easy to minor in something, depending on the field of study. I don’t know about double majoring. It depends on the number of common components. Son figured out a while back that he could get a major in bio-engineering and minor in chemistry or microbiology with a little extra effort. I would say super-human effort, except that just the engineering degree, in my book, is super human effort. At this point, I’m so awed by this field that I’m doing the “Wayne’s World/Aerosmith-worship” thing.</p>
<p>There is no such thing as worthless classes. Well, I guess an underwater basketweaving class or something like that- but really, science classes? Not.</p>
<p>I don’t get the double major thing either. My husband double majored and could have triple majored apparently, but that’s because so many requirements overlapped between biology and physics (his interests) and chemistry. He didn’t have an undergrad thesis requirement. My son in computer science is required to have a minor - I think that’s a good idea since computer programming is something you generally apply to another interest. </p>
<p>He’s very happy taking nothing but math, physics and comp sci except one World History course. (Missed signing up for that AP!)</p>