<p>I’ll bet your daughters and thumper’s daughter are doing quite fine on their own so probably being dropped from the list is not a bad thing! So,LongPrime, is the list ranked?</p>
<p>Wonder if the ranking involves retention rate :)</p>
<p>I can talk about Medicare choices, my physiological condition, washlet bidets, or DS? My choice is a future GF for DS. </p>
<p>Many of us (I’ve been around CC since DS’s sophomore year, fall 2003) old timers have children into their careers and education/college is no longer of intense interest.</p>
<p>Some students prefer the purer sciences to the engineering aspects of them. I liked Chemistry and majored in it, knew I did not want Chem E. It had nothing to do with being a woman of the early 1970’s, but interests. Went to medical school and needed to be tough in a then very male dominated field (the discrimination stories my fellow classmates could tell)- it wasn’t that aspect.</p>
<p>So,then, since you can talk about a future GF for DS, what do you envision for him and what kind of ranking system do you have? How has he done on his own without your generous help?
wis, I would imagine lots of bright kids are making choices between science or medicine and engineering, even now. Some seem to prefer one or the other and know it even before starting college. I liked science in high school but had no interest/ little exposure to engineering in high school. Envisioned as a woman in high school in the 70’s potentially pursuing medicine but engineering never crossed my mind. I think the main question remains why those who have determined they might prefer engineering don’t always complete their degrees in engineering.</p>
<p>I admit that I have not read this thread. I am responding to the title. They leave because engineering is really hard. Really hard.</p>
<p>My son is a bio major. That is also really hard, although not as hard as engineering (in his mom & dad’s opinions - since we have experience with engineering school!). So many labs, so many profs who don’t speak English very well, so many really hard tests. </p>
<p>My D is very good in math and science, but she didn’t major in STEM. She doesn’t want to work in any of those areas, so she didn’t see a reason to major in it.</p>
<p>sevmom,
Start another thread if you want to know about DS.</p>
<p>I think I’ll pass on starting a thread about your DS,LongPrime, (now that others are getting all of us back on track ) but I wish him ( and you) great success .</p>
<p>Please do it sevmom- I am sure jym and I will be entertained.</p>
<p>crosspost</p>
<p>Here’s one for you. I know someone who switched IN to engineering because he felt chemistry was not going to work. </p>
<p>Engineering is hard for some, bit
For others it’s not. Some drop engineering simply because they don’t want to work in that field.</p>
<p>I 'm not sure what a title would be,Moreover!
Engineers also have to take chemistry,physics,multivariable calculus,etc. As thumper says, it’s hard for some, but for others it’s not. I do think it is hard for MOST and those of us who have kids who have gotten through the curriculum with no problem are very lucky. It is VERY hard for lots of kids and many struggle and sometimes give up. Engineering is not for everybody but it is sad to see kids get discouraged and not continue that went in wanting to become engineers.</p>
<p>It is also sad for folks who complete their degrees in engineering (or any other field) & then decide that they really DON’T LIKE the field and can’t imagine practicing in it. There are many reasons for leaving a field. I agree that for many, engineering is hard, especially for kids who don’t have the “knack,” or get burned out for whatever reason along the way.</p>
<p>This happens in many fields. If the goal is to get more engineers, perhaps there should be more paths to get them and more support and training in STEM in different ways. USoCal has a WISE program that supports women in engineering. The year S graduated (2010), ALL the major awards in engineering went to women, even tho they were the minority in the class. Programs like these are a step. Another helpful thing that USC has is career counseling and internship placement offices within the college of engineering. Doing internships, research and other work in the field can be helpful in keeping the student’s interest (or helping them realize that their passion and talents may lie elsewhere).</p>
<p>S was very fortunate to have a great physics mentor for 2 years in HS who taught him AP Physics. I think it really helped provide him with more options and made engineering much less daunting than it was for some of his peers. They really “clicked.”</p>
<hr>
<p>Yea, I believe my S is a project manager with his EE degree. His dean actively DISCOURAGED engineers from double-majoring (or even minoring) because she said that the courseload was already so restricted it would be good for them to take some courses that they were just interested in and not because it was required for something or other. Not sure exactly how much EE S is using in his job, but so far he hasn’t complained & we haven’t heard that he’s looking for something else (he’s only been there some months now). He is keeping his options open for going to law school of some other grad school, as he took the LSAT & GRE in 2009 & did well.</p>
<p>How’d I get pulled into this?</p>
<p>I vote for keeping this (and all other) threads on track. The search for gf for son of LP (and whatever previous sn’s were when he first joined in 2003ish) is amusing but obviously distracting to threads. Sorry, just my opinion at a painfully early hour before my first cup of coffee.</p>
<p>
Are you talking about who I think you are talking about? If not, then we know TWO people who did this.</p>
<p>And I know of one who switched into engineering from physics too.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I come at from a slightly different perspective. My degree is in a generic liberal arts field. I never intended to get a job related to my major and don’t suppose one exists other than in teaching, anyway. My goal was to get an education in an efficient manner while taking courses I thought were interesting, which happened to be mostly history courses. </p>
<p>For my two boys, I similarly had them view college as a place to spend four years getting an education, not career training. They both chose engineering, but neither entered the program with the intent to be an engineer and it never occurred to me that was a problem. In my field in finance, we have lots of people whose undergraduate degrees are in engineering. I viewed engineering as a perfectly good generic education for students who prefer doing their thinking mathematically than through reading.</p>
<p>The oldest, who graduated in 2010, works for an engineering consulting firm. His primary objective in the job search was not to find a job that used his degree but to find a job that allowed him to live and work abroad. He achieved his objective and is very happy. We can’t yet say what the 2013 grad will do. His first job will probably be related to his major, but like most majors that could involve a broad range of possibilities in terms of day to day work depending on the firm and exact position. If he finds something that doesn’t require an engineering degree, that’s fine.</p>
<p>The fact that the coursework has been hard strikes me as a good thing. Neither of my boys are academic superstars who would study for personal growth reasons. They therefore appreciated that the challenge of difficult courses pushed them outside their natural comfort zone. They still found/find plenty of time to relax. The numerous non-engineering courses needed to meet the college core requirements result in a decently well-rounded education. </p>
<p>Using the engineering degree after graduation is not and has never been the primary goal.</p>
<p>I think that’s not surprising…, many of the students who took up engineering courses didn’t know what an engineer does., honestly, I know that being an engineer is a very stressful work (as what i observe ) but of course if you have the skill, talent and of course the interest…, I think, you don’t have to shift to another course., besides, it depends to the personality of the person. I know engineering is hard, it involves both physics and math, and also some drafting things… in taking up this course you must be interested in those things, if not, surely, you won’t last it.</p>
<p>I’m not an expert on these things, but I am getting a better understanding of why students leave the engineering track, just like pre-med students leave the pre-med track.</p>
<p>There are a lot of weed out courses designed to ‘test’ the student’s desire to stay in a course/program. When the professors proclaim that 2/3 students fail his/her course, and sounds like that is to be praised, then we have a problem.</p>
<p>I understand there should be courses to see if people really want something, but professors should be there to teach and guide, not design their teaching/tests/etc to weed out. Frankly, there should not be rewards for a prof that fails most of their students. That doesn’t mean that they should pamper so they all get As, but it really should be the goal of a prof to have their students learn. </p>
<p>There is very little guidance/counseling for students in STEM, starting with elementary school. In colleges now we have programs starting up, but they are mostly for URM students. Not a bad thing, but it means that many potential engineers/scientists/docs get left out.</p>
<p>It’s really about a country’s priorities. If we say we need to be the leader again in manufacturing, technology, etc, then we should put money into making it more desirable and support children/youth that want to pursue this career, regardless of their ethnic/socioeconomic background.</p>
<p>The somewhat sink-or-swim approach to teaching engineer means that those that graduate were able to survive the environment so you should have engineers that can work in pretty crappy environments and employers may like that.</p>
<ul>
<li>Not all universities have the sink-or-swim approach.</li>
</ul>
<p>It is not sad at all when a student completes a major and then switches career ideas. It happens all the time with many majors. And just an FYI about my DD, she was quite well versed on what engineers do as her dad IS an engineer. As I said, she really liked the courses and did well but now thinks a different career choice is a better choice.</p>